Hans-Olaf Henkel Claims Brexit is an EU plot

[Borg Refinery]

I would ride in on my horse and demand an end to all forms of taxation, I'd then tip Ursula over and kiss her passionately, then I'd leave taking with me a young blonde intern on the horse and we'd ride away into the sunset.

Highly amusing. Thought it was Borchester for a second.

This conspiracy theory might hold water if 17.4 million voters had been held to ransom, but they freely voted to leave.

Freely is subjective, for example.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/ffdb6e8c-c5c8-11e9-a8e9-296ca66511c9

I salute the scousers, worra lorra great fellas.

[papasmurf]

Is that right, like your negotiators showing up with nothing. Like Rabb, who didn't know Dover was an important port to the UK, ffs.

Frankly the incompetence of the current government knows no bounds.

[GerryT]

Actually, when a negotiator turns up with a pile of folders that usually means that he does not really care about the outcome, he just does not want to go back to his desk.

Is that right, like your negotiators showing up with nothing. Like Rabb, who didn't know Dover was an important port to the UK, ffs.

[GerryT]

We lost respect both for us and for the EU. The fault as far as I remember was set in the earliest days after the ref. The uproar against the majority vote created a void where the EU lost respect for our resolve encouraged by those who were determined to overthrow the decision. From then on we were seen as weak and the EU appointed Barnier with a mandate to make it as difficult as possible so that we would think again. It nearly worked.
That led to the order of business being dictated to us with, it seems, little counter by us and from then on the seal was set. We can't go back - radical mistakes were made on day 1, the only way forward is to tear up the EU rules as they have applied them to us.

That's no saying how you would do things differently or how you would be in a better position. All your basically saying is you've walked blindfolded into an agreement you now don't like and you'd like to back out of it.

[Borchester]

I would ride in on my horse and demand an end to all forms of taxation, I'd then tip Ursula over and kiss her passionately, then I'd leave taking with me a young blonde intern on the horse and we'd ride away into the sunset.

Highly amusing. Thought it was Borchester for a second.

This conspiracy theory might hold water if 17.4 million voters had been held to ransom, but they freely voted to leave.

Actually, when a negotiator turns up with a pile of folders that usually means that he does not really care about the outcome, he just does not want to go back to his desk.

[Barry]

I would ride in on my horse and demand an end to all forms of taxation, I'd then tip Ursula over and kiss her passionately, then I'd leave taking with me a young blonde intern on the horse and we'd ride away into the sunset.

Highly amusing. Thought it was Borchester for a second.

This conspiracy theory might hold water if 17.4 million voters had been held to ransom, but they freely voted to leave.

[T00ts]

[quote . We can't go back - radical mistakes were made on day 1, the only way forward is to tear up the EU rules as they have applied them to us.

But wasn't it always thus,Toots. There could never have been a ,politician, diplomat , that did not know the EU is a fortress .  And as such it allows no one outside of its walls to have side doors to go in and out at will.
If the EU is to continue to function in the way it is designed to do . The door to that fortress must remain closed  to all that will not agree to their terms as to who gets access . That's not to say there will never be  a trade deal, it just won't involve the EU accepting a weakening of the EU it's self.
[/quote]

It's true - they have built a fortress of protection/containment over many decades using the frog in a pan technique. We are not the only frog to notice the rising temperature but we are the first to get a foothold to get out. I have always referred to the EU as a mafia organisation and wonder what promises/threats have been used over decades to 'persuade' members it was a really good idea. The project is all encompassing for some and they will do anything to preserve it. I can understand that, it's just not our bag any longer. The trouble is that decades of the dominating  experience of an iron fist in a velvet glove has  left us - and I believe all EU members - rather like a rag doll frog. I just hope we have enough backbone left to make the final jump with our skin intact.

[Good old]

 

Regarding the OP, it was always possible that for some in the EU the U.K. was no longer welcome. It's Politics, there will always be factions , even extending to the aims of certain governments. 
By leaving the party we loose the opportunity to pick the music. It's quiet possible some still at the party ,are happy with that.

[Good old]

[quote . We can't go back - radical mistakes were made on day 1, the only way forward is to tear up the EU rules as they have applied them to us.
[/quote]


But wasn't it always thus,Toots. There could never have been a ,politician, diplomat , that did not know the EU is a fortress .  And as such it allows no one outside of its walls to have side doors to go in and out at will.
If the EU is to continue to function in the way it is designed to do . The door to that fortress must remain closed  to all that will not agree to their terms as to who gets access . That's not to say there will never be  a trade deal, it just won't involve the EU accepting a weakening of the EU it's self.

[Borg Refinery]

Ok then, be king for a day. Let's say you were doing the talks on the uk behalf. What would you have done differently and how do you think it would be better now for the uk in regards to how it actually is.
In other words, what did the uk loose that it should have won if things were done differently

I would ride in on my horse and demand an end to all forms of taxation, I'd then tip Ursula over and kiss her passionately, then I'd leave taking with me a young blonde intern on the horse and we'd ride away into the sunset.

[T00ts]

Ok then, be king for a day. Let's say you were doing the talks on the uk behalf. What would you have done differently and how do you think it would be better now for the uk in regards to how it actually is.
In other words, what did the uk loose that it should have won if things were done differently

We lost respect both for us and for the EU. The fault as far as I remember was set in the earliest days after the ref. The uproar against the majority vote created a void where the EU lost respect for our resolve encouraged by those who were determined to overthrow the decision. From then on we were seen as weak and the EU appointed Barnier with a mandate to make it as difficult as possible so that we would think again. It nearly worked.
That led to the order of business being dictated to us with, it seems, little counter by us and from then on the seal was set. We can't go back - radical mistakes were made on day 1, the only way forward is to tear up the EU rules as they have applied them to us.

[GerryT]

Ok then, be king for a day. Let's say you were doing the talks on the uk behalf. What would you have done differently and how do you think it would be better now for the uk in regards to how it actually is.
In other words, what did the uk loose that it should have won if things were done differently

[Nalaar]

Mod Notice

Topic name changed to be representative of the OP, please include a relevant topic title rather than just special characters.

[Streetwalker]

A Eurosceptic MEP hit 'peak Brexit' yesterday after calling Britain's split from the union an EU plot that must be reversed.

Speaking to the Express, Hans-Olaf Henkel claimed it was "no accident" that former president Jean-Claude Juncker had "picked a French bureaucrat" for the job.

"I am convinced that French and other forces in Brussels actually wanted Britain to leave as it was always Britain which stood in the way of 'more Brussels' and 'more government' and 'The United States of Europe' and that Barnier, despite his public statements, would see Britain rather leave than stay.

"It is no accident that ex-president Jean-Claude Juncker picked a French bureaucrat for this job.

"That means he is highly intelligent, well educated and has perfect manners."

EU negotiators "outsmarted" Tory governments
Henkel claimed that the EU negotiator's tactics "outsmarted" the Tory governments – in particular Theresa May's team.

"In the beginning of the negotiations on Brexit he outsmarted the British government (Theresa May) by insisting that before they start discussing a Trade Agreement, the EU should have an agreement on the critical issue of the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland plus a British commitment on the price of the exit."

He continued: "Why did Theresa May agree to the sequence of items to be negotiated? Why were the British negotiators always so poorly prepared when they met with Barnier.

He always showed up with a stack of folders while his British counterpart had hardly more than a sheet of paper

"Why did Britain change their negotiators so frequently? You may want to count them. Were there three, four or five while Barnier always stayed in the same job?"

And the politician, who sat alongside the Conservatives in the European parliament, went as far as saying he wish he could reverse Brexit.

"If I had a magic wand, I would vote for stopping Brexit altogether, warning it is a lose-lose situation.

"It is a lose-lose-situation for Britain and the EU. It has one other advantage: Michel Barnier would be without a job."

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/peak-brexit-eurosceptic-mep-calls-britains-split-an-eu-plot-that-must-be-reversed/17/09/

🤔 Mad thinking, but is he right?

Are the EU really that clever and manipulative?

[/quote]


We are all mad no doubt but no hes not right we should have left years ago ,somewhere around 1975 when we were given the chance .

The EU have played the Tory party , Remainer May in particular like an old violin but I dont think they are that clever . More like the Tories have been incompetent.

I  think half a dozen of our forum members would have made a better job of it 

[papasmurf]

Can you please put thread headers relevant to the subject of the thread.