All Governments incompetent?

[Good old]

Yes, I can't help but think that corruption here is as bad as anywhere. Like I said electing a Government and giving them permission to waste our money is where it goes wrong.

...but toots they didnt have permission to waste my money or your money?

Most of the detail of these PFI contracts were only found out when the snp and tories took over from labour at local national and westminster level.

That north lanarkshire labour party PFI contract for those 24 schools still has another 17 years to run , at a cost of £29 million per annum for the taxpayer , none of which labour wil ltake responsibility for , and the figures wil be on snp books.

This is the legacy of labours profligacy when in power.

...and the knock on effect is the tens of billions for example across the uk including your country which are being paid into these private companies  , money being diverted from front line nhs services and then good old and others moaning about snp and tory incompetence when dealing with things like covid , when they are still clearing up labour party profligacy and mess ten years after they were voted out of power.

Yes you are right, but I understand that Councils had a choice. There are lots of references to this here is just one.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/22/the-case-against-and-for-private-finance-initiatives

We have been led by the nose for decades with a knock on effect which has impoverished us. I try not to do anger but it is simply not good enough that successive governments have been unable to sweep the board of so much mismanagement on a national and local front. My hope is that starting next year we will see a clear new broom start sweeping hard and fast in Whitehall and around the country. Sadly the rot is probably too far gone. I just wish I could see someone with sufficient integrity and strength to make a start.

I'm inclined to agree with the general sentiment you express there.  The truth is competence will not come simply because they are a Tory, Labour , or any other. It will come when we get people that have minds not closed to , to much of what actually is going on around them because they are trapped in a certain party mind set.
Not a situation likely to happen in the near future I feel.

[Thomas]

Yes, I can't help but think that corruption here is as bad as anywhere. Like I said electing a Government and giving them permission to waste our money is where it goes wrong.

...but toots they didnt have permission to waste my money or your money?

Most of the detail of these PFI contracts were only found out when the snp and tories took over from labour at local national and westminster level.

That north lanarkshire labour party PFI contract for those 24 schools still has another 17 years to run , at a cost of £29 million per annum for the taxpayer , none of which labour wil ltake responsibility for , and the figures wil be on snp books.

This is the legacy of labours profligacy when in power.

...and the knock on effect is the tens of billions for example across the uk including your country which are being paid into these private companies  , money being diverted from front line nhs services and then good old and others moaning about snp and tory incompetence when dealing with things like covid , when they are still clearing up labour party profligacy and mess ten years after they were voted out of power.

Yes you are right, but I understand that Councils had a choice. There are lots of references to this here is just one.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/22/the-case-against-and-for-private-finance-initiatives

We have been led by the nose for decades with a knock on effect which has impoverished us. I try not to do anger but it is simply not good enough that successive governments have been unable to sweep the board of so much mismanagement on a national and local front. My hope is that starting next year we will see a clear new broom start sweeping hard and fast in Whitehall and around the country. Sadly the rot is probably too far gone. I just wish I could see someone with sufficient integrity and strength to make a start.

probably , i guess you mean next year once we are out of the eu?

Another old trick of labours in scotland ( and i presume in england) is screaming about the snp and tories prvatising services when they are put out to tender?

Under EU law which labour enthusiastically endorses and supports , the scottish government has to put contracts out to compettitve tender. When labour were in power , they told us this was unavoidable and the correct thing to do , as the eu is superb , but when they get booted out  , and other parties have to follow these same EU rules , labour scream how bad they are and the nasty right wing tartan tories are privatising everything.

This law under eu rules is now as far as im aware coming to an end from the end of the year.

[T00ts]

Yes, I can't help but think that corruption here is as bad as anywhere. Like I said electing a Government and giving them permission to waste our money is where it goes wrong.

...but toots they didnt have permission to waste my money or your money?

Most of the detail of these PFI contracts were only found out when the snp and tories took over from labour at local national and westminster level.

That north lanarkshire labour party PFI contract for those 24 schools still has another 17 years to run , at a cost of £29 million per annum for the taxpayer , none of which labour wil ltake responsibility for , and the figures wil be on snp books.

This is the legacy of labours profligacy when in power.

...and the knock on effect is the tens of billions for example across the uk including your country which are being paid into these private companies  , money being diverted from front line nhs services and then good old and others moaning about snp and tory incompetence when dealing with things like covid , when they are still clearing up labour party profligacy and mess ten years after they were voted out of power.

Yes you are right, but I understand that Councils had a choice. There are lots of references to this here is just one.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/22/the-case-against-and-for-private-finance-initiatives

We have been led by the nose for decades with a knock on effect which has impoverished us. I try not to do anger but it is simply not good enough that successive governments have been unable to sweep the board of so much mismanagement on a national and local front. My hope is that starting next year we will see a clear new broom start sweeping hard and fast in Whitehall and around the country. Sadly the rot is probably too far gone. I just wish I could see someone with sufficient integrity and strength to make a start.

[Thomas]

Yes, I can't help but think that corruption here is as bad as anywhere. Like I said electing a Government and giving them permission to waste our money is where it goes wrong.

...but toots they didnt have permission to waste my money or your money?

Most of the detail of these PFI contracts were only found out when the snp and tories took over from labour at local national and westminster level.

That north lanarkshire labour party PFI contract for those 24 schools still has another 17 years to run , at a cost of £29 million per annum for the taxpayer , none of which labour wil ltake responsibility for , and the figures wil be on snp books.

This is the legacy of labours profligacy when in power.

...and the knock on effect is the tens of billions for example across the uk including your country which are being paid into these private companies  , money being diverted from front line nhs services and then good old and others moaning about snp and tory incompetence when dealing with things like covid , when they are still clearing up labour party profligacy and mess ten years after they were voted out of power.

[T00ts]

I believe Maastricht and therefore the EU restricted public spending and as a result the only investment possible was PFI. They fleeced those who fell for it. Fortunately some Councils saw the light and avoided it but too many didn't. Of course there was need for investment from somewhere so assets were stripped eg playing fields, and trusts were formed which could then borrow.

Toots you know what is maddening to many people in scotland regarding the pfi contract i mention?

At the same time , the labour administration at holyrood had managed to underspend the scottish block grant by £1.5 billion pounds. They needed £145 million to build these schools in lanarkshire.

Instead of using the money they had swilling about doing nothing , labour returned the £1.5 billion to brown and blair at westmisnter and told their bosses in london they had nothing to spend it on.

While at the same time the stitched up generations of scottish taxpayers over these ridiculous contracts.

Jock macconnell was rewarded by blair and brown with a seat in the lords.

These people deserve strung up as john of gwent often says. Criminal waste of taxpayers money .

http://web.archive.org/web/20060602105152/http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/60640.html

A Labour council, operating under a Labour Scottish Executive and a Labour government at Westminster, needed to spend £150m on its schools, but rather than use a small fraction of the effectively free money that was sitting around unspent in the Executive's coffers, signed off on a PFI contract that would cost Scottish taxpayers £729m to do the exact same job.

Bumbling incompetence is one thing. But if we were the current Scottish Government we'd have police crawling all over North Lanarkshire trying to find out how anything so self-evidently insane, and such an utterly criminal waste of taxpayers' money, was ever allowed to happen. And when we found out, we'd want to see some bodies hanging from Motherwell lamp-posts before the sun went down.

Yes, I can't help but think that corruption here is as bad as anywhere. Like I said electing a Government and giving them permission to waste our money is where it goes wrong.

[Thomas]

I believe Maastricht and therefore the EU restricted public spending and as a result the only investment possible was PFI. They fleeced those who fell for it. Fortunately some Councils saw the light and avoided it but too many didn't. Of course there was need for investment from somewhere so assets were stripped eg playing fields, and trusts were formed which could then borrow.

Toots you know what is maddening to many people in scotland regarding the pfi contract i mention?

At the same time , the labour administration at holyrood had managed to underspend the scottish block grant by £1.5 billion pounds. They needed £145 million to build these schools in lanarkshire.

Instead of using the money they had swilling about doing nothing , labour returned the £1.5 billion to brown and blair at westmisnter and told their bosses in london they had nothing to spend it on.

While at the same time the stitched up generations of scottish taxpayers over these ridiculous contracts.

Jock macconnell was rewarded by blair and brown with a seat in the lords.

These people deserve strung up as john of gwent often says. Criminal waste of taxpayers money .

http://web.archive.org/web/20060602105152/http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/60640.html

A Labour council, operating under a Labour Scottish Executive and a Labour government at Westminster, needed to spend £150m on its schools, but rather than use a small fraction of the effectively free money that was sitting around unspent in the Executive's coffers, signed off on a PFI contract that would cost Scottish taxpayers £729m to do the exact same job.

Bumbling incompetence is one thing. But if we were the current Scottish Government we'd have police crawling all over North Lanarkshire trying to find out how anything so self-evidently insane, and such an utterly criminal waste of taxpayers' money, was ever allowed to happen. And when we found out, we'd want to see some bodies hanging from Motherwell lamp-posts before the sun went down.

[T00ts]

As this thread is about government incompetence, I commented, all governments are incompetent to a degree..

yep , and im making sure labours terrible record in government is brought to light .and ?

To say thirteen long years of incompetence is only partially true. There was no hiding behind a banker crisis, as Labour borrowing had never exceeded that of the previous Tory government, until the banking crisis. A crisis that had a similar effect on numerous major economies . It was only in 09, 10, that the borrowing went sky high and the figures for supporting the banks support that

Nope this is wrong.

Blair and brown loved PFI because it allowed them to build schools hospital and other infrastructure , but keep the figures off the  labour government books and kick them into the long grass for future generations and governments to pay for.

If you take into account labours PFI debt , borrowing was sky high long before the banking crises so what are you talking about?

Just Labour? John Major spent six years doing just that, that was why he thought up PFI. Osbourne the same.
Who else was going to build ,schools , hospitals, and other infrastructure ? And what would the state of this country be now if we had not of modernised at that moment in time? Not only do you not answer these questions but you  don't even think about it.  Because because only anti Labour propaganda ,ever enters your head.

I believe Maastricht and therefore the EU restricted public spending and as a result the only investment possible was PFI. They fleeced those who fell for it. Fortunately some Councils saw the light and avoided it but too many didn't. Of course there was need for investment from somewhere so assets were stripped eg playing fields, and trusts were formed which could then borrow.

[Thomas]

No he says we all live in glass houses . Your a mug if you think yours is any more sound than the one you throw bricks at.

Certainly labour shouldnt live in glass houses and throw anti tory stones.

We had labour trying to tell the scottish snp government a few years back that scotland couldnt afford free nhs presciptions, while the snp laughed at them and said a single labour council had thrown £579 million of scottish taxpayers money on PFI which was nothing more than pure extra profit above the capital cost of building these schools which would be enough to pay for free prescriptions in scotland for a decade.

The same trick you play in england  , feck your countires finances up and then blame the incoming tory government when they have to clear up the mess you left in the first place.

[Thomas]

Just Labour? John Major spent six years doing just that, that was why he thought up PFI. Osbourne the same.

sure , and everyone is aware of that fact. However you keep telling us the tories are bad , and the root of all evil , and we need labour governance , and i keep pointing out why you dont get the anti tory vote anymore.

Who else was going to build ,schools , hospitals, and other infrastructure ? And what would the state of this country be now if we had not of modernised at that moment in time? Not only do you not answer these questions but you  don't even think about it.  Because because only anti Labour propaganda ,ever enters your head.

and another good old diversion.

The point you were trying and failing to make was that labour had balanced the book prior to the banking crises of 2008 , and i showed you how this was wrong.

Labours profligate spending on PFI , and the mass amount of debt you had ran up werent on the books for the period prior to 2008 ,  they would be spread over the books for governemtns to come for the next 30 odd years.

I used the north lanarkshire labour council fiasco as a go to example , where labour needed to spend 145 million on  24 new schools , and instead put it on murderously expensive PFI crontracts which would total 729 million over 31 years .

EDUCATION chiefs are paying private firms £729million to build schools worth just a fifth of that amount, it was revealed yesterday.

North Lanarkshire Council were accused of saddling a generation of taxpayers with a "damaging legacy" by entering into a 31-year Private Finance Initiative to build 24 schools.

The council made their first payment in 2006-7 and will have paid the £150million capital cost by 2016-2017.

But under the terms of the deal, taxpayers will not be free of the debt until 2036-37.

The figures were uncovered by MSP for Cumbernauld and Kilsyth Jamie Hepburn.

only a tiny proportion of those debt figures would ever be shown on labours books , while the vast majority would be on the books of other parties and for generations of taxpayers to pay in the future.

This is what you are seriously trying to spin as labours "record" of "balancing books" when in power prior to the banking crises?

Labour....the party of tax and spend.

[Good old]

I am right because nobody is going to move forward while this stupid antiquated system exists. If the last five years were not proof enough, I am not sure what evidence anyone needs,

you know the golden rule sheep......good old says you mustnt mention labour woefull record when in office.

No he says we all live in glass houses . Your a mug if you think yours is any more sound than the one you throw bricks at.

[Good old]

As this thread is about government incompetence, I commented, all governments are incompetent to a degree..

yep , and im making sure labours terrible record in government is brought to light .and ?

To say thirteen long years of incompetence is only partially true. There was no hiding behind a banker crisis, as Labour borrowing had never exceeded that of the previous Tory government, until the banking crisis. A crisis that had a similar effect on numerous major economies . It was only in 09, 10, that the borrowing went sky high and the figures for supporting the banks support that

Nope this is wrong.

Blair and brown loved PFI because it allowed them to build schools hospital and other infrastructure , but keep the figures off the  labour government books and kick them into the long grass for future generations and governments to pay for.

If you take into account labours PFI debt , borrowing was sky high long before the banking crises so what are you talking about?

Just Labour? John Major spent six years doing just that, that was why he thought up PFI. Osbourne the same.
Who else was going to build ,schools , hospitals, and other infrastructure ? And what would the state of this country be now if we had not of modernised at that moment in time? Not only do you not answer these questions but you  don't even think about it.  Because because only anti Labour propaganda ,ever enters your head.

[Sheepy]

Yeah but it was fun for a while and you were lapping it up. So why not.

You mean trying to quench, the unquenchable, your ego.

No I mean the usual sneeky shit you all pull.

[Sheepy]

I am right because nobody is going to move forward while this stupid antiquated system exists. If the last five years were not proof enough, I am not sure what evidence anyone needs,

you know the golden rule sheep......good old says you mustnt mention labour woefull record when in office.

Nah, I don't play by their golden rules and I don't live in their nightmare. At the next election like all of the others it will be a pleasure slapping them down with reality.

[Thomas]

I am right because nobody is going to move forward while this stupid antiquated system exists. If the last five years were not proof enough, I am not sure what evidence anyone needs,

you know the golden rule sheep......good old says you mustnt mention labour woefull record when in office.

[Sheepy]

I am right because nobody is going to move forward while this stupid antiquated system exists. If the last five years were not proof enough, I am not sure what evidence anyone needs,