But wait the EU is just a trade body

[Baff]

The eu is the 27 countries,  the council puts forward new legislation and each county has a single rep. the only things that happen are what a resounding majority want. If a country really doesn't like the direction the eu is going it can leave, very very easily.
This particular issue is every country needs money to recover from c19, its not what one or two countries want. Borrowing in this way is cheaper than doing it alone. Its just like trade, doing deals together is much better.

The EU is a diplomatic institution that governs a treaty between 27 countries.

As for leaving "very very easily" if a country wishes....
It took us over 20 years of trying.

Borrowing this way is cheaper than doing it alone if you have one of the poorer credit ratings out of the 27.
It is easier to do it alone if you have one of the better ones.


Doing trade agreements alone is much easier.
As you can clearly see by the speed and success with which the UK has been making independent trade deals this year.

For a country like ours most of the EU is just dead weight.
A burden, not an asset.

[Thomas]

The eu is the 27 countries,  the council puts forward new legislation and each county has a single rep. the only things that happen are what a resounding majority want. If a country really doesn't like the direction the eu is going it can leave, very very easily.
This particular issue is every country needs money to recover from c19, its not what one or two countries want. Borrowing in this way is cheaper than doing it alone. Its just like trade, doing deals together is much better.

using economic issues to control countries is a favourite tactic of aspiring empires past and present.

If a country really doesn't like the direction the eu is going it can leave, very very easily.

Thats hilarious considering its been four and a half years since the uk voted to leave and pro europeans have done everything within their power to stop democracy being enacted.

[T00ts]

The eu is the 27 countries,  the council puts forward new legislation and each county has a single rep. the only things that happen are what a resounding majority want. If a country really doesn't like the direction the eu is going it can leave, very very easily.
This particular issue is every country needs money to recover from c19, its not what one or two countries want. Borrowing in this way is cheaper than doing it alone. Its just like trade, doing deals together is much better.

Gerry - I understand that you are under the thrall of the EU and as far as you are concerned it is better than sliced bread and I don't blame you for your total indoctrination, but surely you must see that the political management sitting upline from member states' governments is being slowly but surely given more and more power over your little parliament at home and even your reps in Brussels or wherever they happen to be encamped this week? Just wait until suddenly your wonderful organisation doesn't agree with you and your little voice is no longer heard. You have had 4 years of a loud voice but it was only a means to an end - to keep us and you trapped.

[GerryT]

The eu is the 27 countries,  the council puts forward new legislation and each county has a single rep. the only things that happen are what a resounding majority want. If a country really doesn't like the direction the eu is going it can leave, very very easily.
This particular issue is every country needs money to recover from c19, its not what one or two countries want. Borrowing in this way is cheaper than doing it alone. Its just like trade, doing deals together is much better.

[Thomas]

I dont see what your point is, 27 countries, together, using their power together to get a better deal on the open market. Do you think its smart going alone, paying more.

You do realise, a eu country doesn't have to take a loan, they decide for themselves. They can go to the open market on their own to get loans, but that would be really stupid.

Working together?

Wonder how long its going to be before the eu parliament starts setting aside national parliaments in the different nations , and controlling more and more of the daily lives of citizens in the various countries?

The more i read about the EU , the less i like it .

Creeping centralisation of power in some remote unaccountable parliament in another country is never a good thing.

[GerryT]

I dont see what your point is, 27 countries, together, using their power together to get a better deal on the open market. Do you think its smart going alone, paying more.

You do realise, a eu country doesn't have to take a loan, they decide for themselves. They can go to the open market on their own to get loans, but that would be really stupid.

[T00ts]

It does make me laugh. Borrow money from the EU because it is cheaper and easier - I just wonder what the catch would be if members were to default. Another stick to beat members with I suspect.

Dunno Toots, but cheap money sounds like a temping offer, who doesn't like cheap money, have they factored in the hidden costs though?

Hidden costs? Are you telling me that the EU hides anything? I am fairly certain that once hidden in the EU, skeletons once hidden is where they will remain

[Sheepy]

It does make me laugh. Borrow money from the EU because it is cheaper and easier - I just wonder what the catch would be if members were to default. Another stick to beat members with I suspect.

Dunno Toots, but cheap money sounds like a temping offer, who doesn't like cheap money, have they factored in the hidden costs though?

[T00ts]

It does make me laugh. Borrow money from the EU because it is cheaper and easier - I just wonder what the catch would be if members were to default. Another stick to beat members with I suspect.

[Sheepy]

Oh so they are going up, that's what I thought it said, as voted by the EU.

WHats your point, countries need a stimulus package to recover after C19, the EU is no difference. Or are you suggesting it's only the EU. The UK doesn't need a c19 cash injection, and where will that money come from ?
The Uk estimate to get to April next yr will be additional borrowing of 263-391bStg or a massive 430b euro. How will the UK pay for that, Taxes.  You seem to be trying to make a point out of nothing. All countries will have to recover from c19. The EU has jointly decided to borrow at lower rates, using it's size to get a better deal. SO yes taxes in the EU, because each member state decided to do that. The UK is also, but it just costing you more.

Calm down Gerry, I just wanted it clarified that the EU parliament is the sovereign body and any sovereignty is with them, which you have done.  Its no big deal unless you are bothered about it.

[GerryT]

Oh so they are going up, that's what I thought it said, as voted by the EU.

WHats your point, countries need a stimulus package to recover after C19, the EU is no difference. Or are you suggesting it's only the EU. The UK doesn't need a c19 cash injection, and where will that money come from ?
The Uk estimate to get to April next yr will be additional borrowing of 263-391bStg or a massive 430b euro. How will the UK pay for that, Taxes.  You seem to be trying to make a point out of nothing. All countries will have to recover from c19. The EU has jointly decided to borrow at lower rates, using it's size to get a better deal. SO yes taxes in the EU, because each member state decided to do that. The UK is also, but it just costing you more.

[Sheepy]

Phew, you took your time Gerry, so taxes are not going up, as voted in by the EU, well done.

Sheepy, if countries did this alone it would cost a lot more for each country. When you say the EU voted for this what you should say is the 27 countries voted for this.

The way you say it it sounds like the EU is some distant entity. The EU is it's 27 members. Think of a co-op, 27 countries doing things together. Alien thought I know for your UK.

Oh so they are going up, that's what I thought it said, as voted by the EU.

[GerryT]

Phew, you took your time Gerry, so taxes are not going up, as voted in by the EU, well done.

Sheepy, if countries did this alone it would cost a lot more for each country. When you say the EU voted for this what you should say is the 27 countries voted for this.

The way you say it it sounds like the EU is some distant entity. The EU is it's 27 members. Think of a co-op, 27 countries doing things together. Alien thought I know for your UK.

[Sheepy]

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-eu-recovery-taxes-parliament/european-parliament-votes-for-new-taxes-in-eu-to-repay-recovery-borrowing-idUKKBN26732U
Which has to put everything past all the parliaments, so I guess you won't be paying then.

I'll bite, don't know why a brexiteer would put this up as it's a positive of the EU. Countries have the choice to not take a loan from this system and get moneyt themselves on the open market, or raise govt bonds, but all that would be far more expensive.

The EU borrows 750b and will give loans to member states to the tune of 360b at exceptionally low interest rates to help recover from Covid if a country wants a loan.  The purchasing power of the EU is being demonstrated here.
The remaining 390b will be given out as grants to areas that are deprived and require specific attention. But each state has been tasked with taxing business that isn't "green" to raise money to pay the grant issues they receive. The EU is targeting tax dodgers, large IT multinationals that don't contribute as much as they should and non green industries.

What's your problem with this ? If the UK wants a C19 stimulus package it will either borrow (at far higher rates) or divert spending on the NHS/Schools/Pensions to do this. I think the EU way is far better

Phew, you took your time Gerry, so taxes are not going up, as voted in by the EU, well done.

[GerryT]

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-eu-recovery-taxes-parliament/european-parliament-votes-for-new-taxes-in-eu-to-repay-recovery-borrowing-idUKKBN26732U
Which has to put everything past all the parliaments, so I guess you won't be paying then.

I'll bite, don't know why a brexiteer would put this up as it's a positive of the EU. Countries have the choice to not take a loan from this system and get moneyt themselves on the open market, or raise govt bonds, but all that would be far more expensive.

The EU borrows 750b and will give loans to member states to the tune of 360b at exceptionally low interest rates to help recover from Covid if a country wants a loan.  The purchasing power of the EU is being demonstrated here.
The remaining 390b will be given out as grants to areas that are deprived and require specific attention. But each state has been tasked with taxing business that isn't "green" to raise money to pay the grant issues they receive. The EU is targeting tax dodgers, large IT multinationals that don't contribute as much as they should and non green industries.

What's your problem with this ? If the UK wants a C19 stimulus package it will either borrow (at far higher rates) or divert spending on the NHS/Schools/Pensions to do this. I think the EU way is far better