But wait the EU is just a trade body

[Thomas]

The creeping centralisation of powers into brussells and encroachment over all aspects of daily lives is worrying .

Whatever the eu may have started out as , we can all see where it is heading under the guise of protestations of innocence.

It will go as far as people/countries want. If countries don't like it they can leave, r if enough think that way they can stop any further changes. But at least they don't have to ask permission to leave, Scotland seems to have to. NI has to wait for the UK to allow it to vote and I don't know about wales, but they prob couldn't pass a vote with all the English living there.

Scotland hasnt asked to leave as yet , the first minister hasnt asked for another indy ref officially so what are you on about?

The eu meanwhile has done everything it could though its minions to stop the uk leaving , and is doing everything it can to be awkward with the uk getting a trade deal to punish the uk for daring to vote to leave.

Its a disgracefull situation .

Im a regular visitor to france , and the french arent happy either with the growing centralisation of the eu. Eventually i can see the whole nasty racket unravelling the way brussells and their unelected clowns are going.

[GerryT]

it is leaving gerry. 15 weeks to go , and the clock is ticking down.

I cannae believe thats another week went by. Seriously doesnt time fly when you are having fun?

Agh great crack, especially when the likes of sheepy comes along, digs into the far corners of his head and just starts writing.

[Thomas]

Gerry talks about the eu response to covid and countires working hand in hand being a good thing , while on the other side of the coin there has been uproar in many eu nations at yet more eu centralisation and creeping power over track and trace .

The eu want to centralise the contact tracing into one eu controlled system , while citizens across europe are in outrage over this , and any potentil databse breach and misuse of european peoples information by brussells.

The more i read about this shady organsation , the more outraged i become.

[GerryT]

The creeping centralisation of powers into brussells and encroachment over all aspects of daily lives is worrying .

Whatever the eu may have started out as , we can all see where it is heading under the guise of protestations of innocence.

It will go as far as people/countries want. If countries don't like it they can leave, r if enough think that way they can stop any further changes. But at least they don't have to ask permission to leave, Scotland seems to have to. NI has to wait for the UK to allow it to vote and I don't know about wales, but they prob couldn't pass a vote with all the English living there.

[Thomas]

The WA is a legal contract and can't be unilaterally done away with.

yes it can , and thats what johnson is doing thankfully. in about four weeks time.

I'm interested to see why you think that the WA is unfair on Scotland.

The scottish government have written extensively why it is unfair on scotland .

I've explained the border poll before. It's not a decision to join the UK, it's a poll to unite IRL.

and i explained to you before , stop being diningenuous no one isaying it is a decision to join the uk. Northern ireland already is in the uk , the only decision open to them is to leave.

This is what they have to do if they want  to remain in the eu , and it remains a usefull tool for johnson to call the eu bluff over.

All I hear is the EU are bullies, trying to keep the UK trapped, acting unfairly.

They are. The eu behaviour over brexit has been a disgrace , while using the colonised in the uk to police the colony and stop the uk leaving.

[GerryT]

The WA cannot stand , it is unfair on the uk , and unfair on scotland.
Good for johnson.

The WA is a legal contract and can't be unilaterally done away with. Well the UK can, just like it can drop a nuclear missile on New York, but neither of those unlawful acts would be a wise move for the UK. What the UK should do is recind this stupid bill and go back to the WA and follow the process and procedures within the agreement. After exhausting all of that then the UK can dream up the bat shit crazy ways to deal with being unhappy.

I'm interested to see why you think that the WA is unfair on Scotland. It's def not unfair on the UK, the UK signed up to it willingly, after years of painstaking negotiations and going through the document word by word. No excuse for the UK what so ever.

If ripping up the WA does cause any issues  , then Johnson should as i said undermine the whines of the eu by offering NI a border poll which will completely take the wind out theri sails.
At the moment though , 15 weeks to go , and four weeks to do a deal   , people on all sides are still trying to win it all.
The clock is the uks friend though , and time is on our side.

I've explained the border poll before. It's not a decision to join the UK, it's a poll to unite IRL. If the poll isn't carried then the WA remains and the border poll can be held again in another 7 years. rinse and repeat.
Nice that you would suggest NI be used to try help Johnson out of a jam. Who would have though England using Ireland to it's own means.

The clock is most def not the UK's friend. Leaving all it's trade deals, not just the EU, not having border controls in place, no assurance for business, no plan for regulatory bodies, its a total mess. The last 3 years totally wasted.
All I hear is the EU are bullies, trying to keep the UK trapped, acting unfairly. Reality is the UK isn't getting what it thinks it deserves, that's just plain English exceptionalism, get used to it or rethink what's achievable.

[Thomas]

Von der leyen....

I love democracy, I love the european union . The power you give me I will lay down when this crisis is abated. And as my first act with this new authority, I will create a Grand Army of the Republic to counter the increasing threat of the Separatists

Seig heil!!!

France's Macron pushes for 'true European army'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46108633

To applause, Germany's chancellor Merkel  told the European Parliament a european army would be better for NATO, and a more efficient partner for the U.S.

https://youtu.be/7gHOA2y9BzU

[Thomas]

Its actually 14 weeks and five days gerry , so i stand corrected.

[Thomas]

What's hilarious is the UK sitting on it's hands and not leaving.

it is leaving gerry. 15 weeks to go , and the clock is ticking down.

I cannae believe thats another week went by. Seriously doesnt time fly when you are having fun?

[Thomas]

But there is no "someone" controlling the EU. How you think a group of countries, together, trying to get better loan rates on open markets equates to empire building is bewildering.

The creeping centralisation of powers into brussells and encroachment over all aspects of daily lives is worrying .

Whatever the eu may have started out as , we can all see where it is heading under the guise of protestations of innocence.

[Thomas]

Have you had a good look at the recent bill that Johnson, or should I say Cummings is introducing. It's not just the WA that it's trying to undermine. Have a look at this article from last yr and look at this bill, he's disguising the changes to the UK under the WA mask.

https://theconversation.com/boris-johnson-is-planning-radical-changes-to-the-uk-constitution-here-are-the-ones-you-need-to-know-about-128956

In the UK, you don't have a way to stop some megalomaniac taking power. Funny that you think the EU does, when it doesn't.

The WA cannot stand , it is unfair on the uk , and unfair on scotland.

Good for johnson.

If ripping up the WA does cause any issues  , then johnson should as i said undermine the whines of the eu by offering NI a border poll which will completely take the wind out theri sails.

At the moment though , 15 weeks to go , and four weeks to do a deal   , people on all sides are still trying to win it all.

The clock is the uks friend though , and time is on our side.

[GerryT]

using economic issues to control countries is a favourite tactic of aspiring empires past and present.

But there is no "someone" controlling the EU. How you think a group of countries, together, trying to get better loan rates on open markets equates to empire building is bewildering. The EU is so constructed that there is a separation of powers and any such move is impossible. However as your on the subject, if you want to draw parallels with recent history and a country in Europe whipping up fear against Jews and the local people believing there superiority over others. With a leader building his empire on lies and deceit, grabbing power in his country and having people blindly leading him, now you do have a similarity to the UK today.

Thats hilarious considering its been four and a half years since the uk voted to leave and pro europeans have done everything within their power to stop democracy being enacted.

What's hilarious is the UK sitting on it's hands and not leaving. It's in the same or worse position, actually worse now that the first day after voting to leave. It's the UK constantly asking for extensions. The EU hasn't asked the UK to stay. The EU has done nothing to stop the UK leaving, but your going to correct me know by giving the long list of things the EU has done to try stop the UK leaving, or maybe not.

[GerryT]

Gerry - I understand that you are under the thrall of the EU and as far as you are concerned it is better than sliced bread and I don't blame you for your total indoctrination, but surely you must see that the political management sitting upline from member states' governments is being slowly but surely given more and more power over your little parliament at home and even your reps in Brussels or wherever they happen to be encamped this week? Just wait until suddenly your wonderful organisation doesn't agree with you and your little voice is no longer heard. You have had 4 years of a loud voice but it was only a means to an end - to keep us and you trapped.

The EU council that puts forward change are the prime ministers of each state. They change every time a country changes their PM. Parliament as you know elect their MEP's at local elections and the PM of each country nominates your countries commissioner, the commissioners and MEP's get a 5yr term.
Now that you prob understand the EU institutions are democratic and these institutions represent each country. There is no EU bogey man.

If the EU is given more competence it's not because any country or group of countries want it. That wouldn't get past a vote at council or parliament. No one body can write and pass laws (unlike the UK). Again their is a division of power. The direction the EU takes is one where the majority want to go. Obviously the UK didn't and has left, any other country that no longer likes the direction can also leave. So just like Scotland and NI wanted to stay they were dragged out by England that did want to leave, no way their's a one vote per country there. You have a version of democracy that I wouldn't sign up to.
Take Ireland, we have a written constitution, that's sovereign, the people in IRL are sovereign. IF our Govt or even the EU wants to introduce a law that's contrary to that constitution then it doesn't happen without the people holding a referendum.

You really don't get it, when the UK triggered art50 the EU and IRL knew the UK was leaving. What we wan't to know was what was the future relationship be like,
the EU didn't want to keep the UK in but it would have liked a close relationship. But the UK can do what it likes, the EU knows this also. The problem is the UK doesn't have a clue what it wants. And continues the blame the EU for the UK dithering and indecision, pathetic really.

Have you had a good look at the recent bill that Johnson, or should I say Cummings is introducing. It's not just the WA that it's trying to undermine. Have a look at this article from last yr and look at this bill, he's disguising the changes to the UK under the WA mask.

https://theconversation.com/boris-johnson-is-planning-radical-changes-to-the-uk-constitution-here-are-the-ones-you-need-to-know-about-128956

In the UK, you don't have a way to stop some megalomaniac taking power. Funny that you think the EU does, when it doesn't.

[T00ts]

The EU is a diplomatic institution that governs a treaty between 27 countries.

As for leaving "very very easily" if a country wishes....
It took us over 20 years of trying.

Borrowing this way is cheaper than doing it alone if you have one of the poorer credit ratings out of the 27.
It is easier to do it alone if you have one of the better ones.


Doing trade agreements alone is much easier.
As you can clearly see by the speed and success with which the UK has been making independent trade deals this year.

For a country like ours most of the EU is just dead weight.
A burden, not an asset.

its hilarious listening to anglo remainers like gerry spin how wonderfull it is countries working in economic harmony in the eu over recovering from covid , but you wont ever hear him mention the downside to the dodgy eu and its economic corruption over places like greece.

Every sensible analysis i have ever read on the plight of the greeks show that had the current rules for eurozone membership been adhered to  , instead of bent like a straw by the germans  , Greece would never ever have been allowed to join in the first place.

Remember when they threatened the left wing greek syriza government in athens , when the greek government tried to call a referendum on eu imposed austerity , and the eu threatened  economic sanctions while telling the rest of the EU nations the greeks only have themselves to blame for their plight as they are lazy and feckless?

Im currently reading up on greece current plight  , and from what i have read so far it shows nothing more than eu incompetence and corruption to the core of the whole nasty issue.

Oh yes and German luxuries on German credit were well to the fore as well. Abuse for financial gain.

[Thomas]

The EU is a diplomatic institution that governs a treaty between 27 countries.

As for leaving "very very easily" if a country wishes....
It took us over 20 years of trying.

Borrowing this way is cheaper than doing it alone if you have one of the poorer credit ratings out of the 27.
It is easier to do it alone if you have one of the better ones.


Doing trade agreements alone is much easier.
As you can clearly see by the speed and success with which the UK has been making independent trade deals this year.

For a country like ours most of the EU is just dead weight.
A burden, not an asset.

its hilarious listening to anglo remainers like gerry spin how wonderfull it is countries working in economic harmony in the eu over recovering from covid , but you wont ever hear him mention the downside to the dodgy eu and its economic corruption over places like greece.

Every sensible analysis i have ever read on the plight of the greeks show that had the current rules for eurozone membership been adhered to  , instead of bent like a straw by the germans  , Greece would never ever have been allowed to join in the first place.

Remember when they threatened the left wing greek syriza government in athens , when the greek government tried to call a referendum on eu imposed austerity , and the eu threatened  economic sanctions while telling the rest of the EU nations the greeks only have themselves to blame for their plight as they are lazy and feckless?

Im currently reading up on greece current plight  , and from what i have read so far it shows nothing more than eu incompetence and corruption to the core of the whole nasty issue.