EU Tells No 10: Bill Still Breaks Intl Law Despite Compromise

[Borchester]

"Every international lawyer is familiar with the Vienna convention on the law of treaties, and its article 27, which reflects a general principle: 'A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty'.

"There is simply no way around this binding rule – to opine that parliament is sovereign is, in this sense, hopeless."

Bit Irish if you will pardon my saying so Gerry.

The whole point of leaving the EU was to establish the supremacy of Parliament.

[Nick]

Whilst I admittedly wouldn't pretend to have received any legal tuition, other than a smattering of domestic law many years ago, I would never pretend otherwise.... however,  it would seem to me that a truly sovereign state would have the power to both enter into an international agreement - and also withdraw from it.
Clearly however, on that basis, a country should exercise that power of withdrawing from an agreement, if it subsequently didn't wish to 'apply' it in a particular  circumstance , rather than just refuse to apply it because it didn't suit their wishes.

The government hasn't done any of those things, they are merely in the process of passing a bill that stops the EU potentially screwing us.
If the EU stick us in a box and we agree to stay there then that's fine. If we then cut a big escape hole in the side just in case they do something, but stay put we haven't broken any law, that's all they are doing.

[Baff]

We have a 60 billion deficit with the EU, they will get the same tariffs on goods into the UK but 60 billion more. Funny how you never mention that Gerry! 15% of the German car industry, suddenly gone through the roof. If only we had a deal with Japan to get cheap cars. Oh wait 🤔

The tariffs are set by the UK govt, they could be the same. But their paid for by the UK people, that's you. The UK are planning a 40% tariff on Meats, so meat you import will go up by 40%. Hooray for Brexit. Suddenly people in the UK that want a BMW/Merc will be paying more, shouldn't be a problem as most of those are company cars. Maybe the company director will start driving around in a nissan leaf
In the EU, we have FTA's with each other and have the choice of substituting UK foods, either the UK producer drops his price or consumers will just buy the product on the shelf beside the UK one. Unless of course the UK good is vastly superior.
As for the UK car inductry, how will JIT work, all those customs checks/delays/tariffs both ways. Doesn't really make sense long term unless your producing only for the UK market. You'll see big changes here with time.
You have a trade deal with Japan via the EU. Have you looked at the detail, because the UK is now competing with 27 EU countries for that market and at best you'll be doing that on equal terms.

The same way it already does.
If a part takes 2 days to import, you order it 2 days before you want it.
If a part takes 2 weeks to import you order it two weeks before you want it.

All the supply chains I have worked with come from both inside and outside of the EU. Not one or the other.
For Japan, who has an FTA, they can supply from Japan instead of the EU to get the tarif reduction.
You may also consider buying a Merc or BMW made outside the EU as their price will not change.

[Stevlin]

Whilst I admittedly wouldn't pretend to have received any legal tuition, other than a smattering of domestic law many years ago, I would never pretend otherwise.... however,  it would seem to me that a truly sovereign state would have the power to both enter into an international agreement - and also withdraw from it.
Clearly however, on that basis, a country should exercise that power of withdrawing from an agreement, if it subsequently didn't wish to 'apply' it in a particular  circumstance , rather than just refuse to apply it because it didn't suit their wishes.

[Nick]

You have a trade deal with Japan via the EU

Absolute rubbish, where is the link to that?

[GerryT]

We have a 60 billion deficit with the EU, they will get the same tariffs on goods into the UK but 60 billion more. Funny how you never mention that Gerry! 15% of the German car industry, suddenly gone through the roof. If only we had a deal with Japan to get cheap cars. Oh wait 🤔

The tariffs are set by the UK govt, they could be the same. But their paid for by the UK people, that's you. The UK are planning a 40% tariff on Meats, so meat you import will go up by 40%. Hooray for Brexit. Suddenly people in the UK that want a BMW/Merc will be paying more, shouldn't be a problem as most of those are company cars. Maybe the company director will start driving around in a nissan leaf
In the EU, we have FTA's with each other and have the choice of substituting UK foods, either the UK producer drops his price or consumers will just buy the product on the shelf beside the UK one. Unless of course the UK good is vastly superior.
As for the UK car inductry, how will JIT work, all those customs checks/delays/tariffs both ways. Doesn't really make sense long term unless your producing only for the UK market. You'll see big changes here with time.
You have a trade deal with Japan via the EU. Have you looked at the detail, because the UK is now competing with 27 EU countries for that market and at best you'll be doing that on equal terms.

[Nick]

Gerry its over mate , we will have fully left in january. Your daft wee eu laws wont apply to us so why do we care.?
We are out mate deal with it.
Im looking forward to freedom!

Not necessarily true. For those UK business looking to sell into the EU, well, lets just say they will have to keep following those rules. Just now their products will incur a tariff making it harder to sell and those UK businesses will have to pay for compliance inspections. That's not even mentioning NI, their practically fully aligned.

We have a 60 billion deficit with the EU, they will get the same tariffs on goods into the UK but 60 billion more. Funny how you never mention that Gerry! 15% of the German car industry, suddenly gone through the roof. If only we had a deal with Japan to get cheap cars. Oh wait 🤔

[Borg Refinery]

but overall it's good.

well the people didnt think so dyno , and we voted to leave.

Once out , start a campaign for the uk to rejoin the good and benign eu.

No chance, we don't want to be in the EU and they wouldn't want us anymore.

Plus, you mean England not the UK.

[GerryT]

It is no less  clean cut than the other situations i mention to you , yet spain still use international law to support certain claims while ignoring international law on others.
While your beloved eu stood and watched while they beat old men in wheelchairs.

It's not clear cut and it's not obviously breaking international law.

Either way it's nothing really to do with the EU, the EU is basically a trade body, workers rights, environment issues, all that stems from trade. Why would the EU get involved with a domestic dispute, if it gets to International issues then the UN would step in. And the UK stood by also. You keep confusing a country and the EU, not the same thing. You criticise the EU for acting like a country/empire and then you criticise it for not.

[Barry]

As for Gibraltar, WTF is the UK doing there, go home.

I think we are still there owing to one of those International Treaties you keep harping on about, yet you want to break the 300+ years old treaty of Utrecht.
So which way do you want it?
International treaties are valid, or invalidate International treaties if YOU don't like them?

[Thomas]

but overall it's good.

well the people didnt think so dyno , and we voted to leave.

Once out , start a campaign for the uk to rejoin the good and benign eu.

[Thomas]

The Catalan situation is not clean cut, there are many different views on it.

It is no less  clean cut than the other situations i mention to you , yet spain still use international law to support certain claims while ignoring international law on others.

While your beloved eu stood and watched while they beat old men in wheelchairs.

[GerryT]

Tell that to spain.
Spain is quite happy to ignore the international law on self determination in catalonia , while demanding morocco respects the right of self determination in ceuta and mellila . Morroco then argues the un law on decolonistation should apply , which the spanish contest , while the cheeky spanish cants demand the same laws should apply to gibraltar.
Feck international law,,,,its an ass which only applies when the strong see fit........and the uk is still leaving the eu.

The Catalan situation is not clean cut, there are many different views on it. As for Gibraltar, WTF is the UK doing there, go home.

Anyway, what EU laws were so terrible for the people that the UK is going to immediately change in January to make things better for people. Just 10 will do.

[Borg Refinery]

'A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty'.

Tell that to spain.

Spain is quite happy to ignore the international law on self determination in catalonia , while demanding morocco respects the right of self determination in ceuta and mellila . Morroco then argues the un law on decolonistation should apply , which the spanish contest , while the cheeky spanish cants demand the same laws should apply to gibraltar.

Feck international law,,,,its an ass which only applies when the strong see fit.

.......and the uk is still leaving the eu.

Good points.

But I wouldn't throw the whole EU out just yet, there are many justified criticisms to be made of it and EU countries, but overall it's good.

[GerryT]

Gerry its over mate , we will have fully left in january. Your daft wee eu laws wont apply to us so why do we care.?
We are out mate deal with it.
Im looking forward to freedom!

Not necessarily true. For those UK business looking to sell into the EU, well, lets just say they will have to keep following those rules. Just now their products will incur a tariff making it harder to sell and those UK businesses will have to pay for compliance inspections. That's not even mentioning NI, their practically fully aligned.