Oh really is that so?

[GerryT]

Your not prepared to bend or move on your red lines.

They will accept nothing less than complete surrender and total reversion of the uk voting to leave the eu.

I say you won't bend or move and you say I'm looking for the UK to complete surrender and to stay in the EU. That's not what I said. I said if you don't want a canada basic FTA, then you need to move a red line. Your not been told anything, your presented with the options.
Why is the UK so fixated on a deal with the EU, you have a couple lined up, why not look to get deals done with other countries, it's not compulsory o get one with the EU. Lets face it you know exactly whats needed for each step on the Barnier ladder, other countries could easily work it out, 60 of them, all at different degrees of alignment. The real issue is the UK wants no commitments with the best deal, it doesn't work that way.

I think johnson is doing a great job , something may should have done years ago and stood up to these european hitlers.

May didn't put a border down the middle of a country, Johnson did that all on his own, something way said 'no PM could ever agree to' but Johnson did.
You dn=on't have to stand up, you can just walk away or trade, totally your choice. Nobody is forcing the UK to do anything, which is why the UK isn't being bullied.

[GerryT]

I have to say that if the above post is a product of the writer's indoctrination in the EU then it is a fine example of both insult and bullying.

Go on, show a couple examples of the EU bullying the UK

[GerryT]

it does know what it wants , the uk wants a FTA with the eu without any of the eu empires strings attached , like the four freedoms , CU etc etc we have discussed for over four years now.
This old trope is laughable now.
Come hogmanay , and no FTA , its all down to the eu and every man woman child in the uk know it.
Hard brexit will be a complet failure of eu policy and lack of felxibility , and the uk is better off out of it.

The UK was offered that, but it said no. It didn't want a canada deal, it wanted canada+++. Any min now you'll produce something from the UK showing what they want. You might also have your top 10 rules the EU had that you want changing in January

The UK wants equivalence and gain 3rd country status. But guess what the EU sits and waits for the UK to forward it's standards. You really couldn't make this stuff up.

[Barry]

No more extensions for the UK no matter how many more times it asks

Allelujah!

[GerryT]

No he wasnt lying , that is what he believed would happen after the EU clearly insinuated this was all part of the deal to get a FTA , then reneged.
He has been left in a terrible position down to the eu behaviour .If a border goes back up in ni , it wont be boris fault , it will be the eu who have refused to agree to a FTA and led johnson up the garden path..

That's not what he believed, he did't understand the implication of what he agreed to because he's too lazy to read the document. He thought the EU would roll over. The WA is the backup if the talks failed, talks are failing so the WA comes to front and centre.
Any position he finds himself in is because he put himself there. What did the EU do to cause this situation, some specifics. All you have is bluster and emotive language. The UK knew it's committment under the GFA yet it went ahead with brexit, it's all on the UK. Everyone knows it, it's why the USA is warning the UK to stop its reckless behaviour. Who's saying that to the EU, no one.

Just as ireland broke the treaty of windsor etc etc. Whats good for the goose....

I've addressed your false accusations and even at that all you have is the invasion of IRL and "traties" taking everything from the Irish, you don't even see the injustice.
And no not whats good for the goose. The UK doesn't make the rules, its now a rule taker. It will not be let abandon the rule of law.

completely out the eu , no eu courts , no customs union and no eu fees. We want to freely trade with you , if not  ta ta.
Stop playing daft...it has been spelled out time and agin for four years.

I was looking for something a bit more official, not what you think. But what you say above prob is all the UK has, and you think this mess is the EU's fault.

14 weeks to go so no much more to watch .4 weeks till the ni issue gets sorted , then another ten till fully out and big party at hogmanay celebrating.

Less than 2 weeks to go and it's all over. Don't know where your getting your time line. After 2 weeks it's just a waiting game. No more extensions for the UK no matter how many more times it asks

[Barry]

The EU doesn't negotiate it is a misnomer.

They say we can have an FTA.
Then they say:
Have you agrreed to let us have your fish?
Have you agreed to free movement of people?
Have you agreed to the mythical level playing field?
Have you deposited the 40 billion into Brussels bank.com?

No. OK - see you in 15 days.
That's not negotiation.

[T00ts]

I have to say that if the above post is a product of the writer's indoctrination in the EU then it is a fine example of both insult and bullying.

look at the language toots.....

Your not prepared to bend or move on your red lines.

They will accept nothing less than complete surrender and total reversion of the uk voting to leave the eu.

I think johnson is doing a great job , something may should have done years ago and stood up to these european hitlers.

You are right of course. The EU doesn't negotiate it is a misnomer. What is worse is that they feign talks while all the time professing to be upright and straight forward. I cannot believe the naivety of those who trust them.

[Thomas]

I have to say that if the above post is a product of the writer's indoctrination in the EU then it is a fine example of both insult and bullying.

look at the language toots.....

Your not prepared to bend or move on your red lines.

They will accept nothing less than complete surrender and total reversion of the uk voting to leave the eu.

I think johnson is doing a great job , something may should have done years ago and stood up to these european hitlers.

[T00ts]

...and that for me is the whole point. May 'negotiated' a WA which was a mess. In the time allowed change was the best we could achieve banging our heads against a brick wall. But we were stupid enough to believe that the carrot held out to us of a FTD was real and honest. Like heck it was and ever since they have done everything possible to withdraw it unless we are bent so far that we break.

That's a cop out, sounds like a 8yr old's excuse, I didn't read it. We are talking about a country, govt with endless resources to read and red line the WA. What Johnson signed was the Johnson WA. Not the May agreement. Checkers put that in the bin.
The UK hasn't a deal because it doesn't know what it wants. Can you or anyone on here link the document that shows what the UK wants, what is it's position on FTA. Nobody knows.

Thank goodness that we are not prepared to bend and if that means we have to take drastic action not to be abused then so be it. Bullies are always cowards at heart

Your not prepared to bend or move on your red lines. All those lines makes it impossible for the UK to make a position. It doesn't know what it wants and like a child is throwing a strop because the cinema won't let him in without buying a ticket.
Show an example of the EU bullying the UK.

I have to say that if the above post is a product of the writer's indoctrination in the EU then it is a fine example of both insult and bullying.

[Thomas]

The UK hasn't a deal because it doesn't know what it wants.

.

it does know what it wants , the uk wants a FTA with the eu without any of the eu empires strings attached , like the four freedoms , CU etc etc we have discussed for over four years now.

This old trope is laughable now.

Come hogmanay , and no FTA , its all down to the eu and every man woman child in the uk know it.

Hard brexit will be a complet failure of eu policy and lack of felxibility , and the uk is better off out of it.

[GerryT]

...and that for me is the whole point. May 'negotiated' a WA which was a mess. In the time allowed change was the best we could achieve banging our heads against a brick wall. But we were stupid enough to believe that the carrot held out to us of a FTD was real and honest. Like heck it was and ever since they have done everything possible to withdraw it unless we are bent so far that we break.

That's a cop out, sounds like a 8yr old's excuse, I didn't read it. We are talking about a country, govt with endless resources to read and red line the WA. What Johnson signed was the Johnson WA. Not the May agreement. Checkers put that in the bin.
The UK hasn't a deal because it doesn't know what it wants. Can you or anyone on here link the document that shows what the UK wants, what is it's position on FTA. Nobody knows.

Thank goodness that we are not prepared to bend and if that means we have to take drastic action not to be abused then so be it. Bullies are always cowards at heart

Your not prepared to bend or move on your red lines. All those lines makes it impossible for the UK to make a position. It doesn't know what it wants and like a child is throwing a strop because the cinema won't let him in without buying a ticket.
Show an example of the EU bullying the UK.

[Thomas]

Johnson was lying, he said there would be no checks between NI and the UK, he said that in NI to the NI assembly

No he wasnt lying , that is what he believed would happen after the EU clearly insinuated this was all part of the deal to get a FTA , then reneged.

He has been left in a terrible position down to the eu behaviour .If a border goes back up in ni , it wont be boris fault , it will be the eu who have refused to agree to a FTA and led johnson up the garden path..

You'll be very very lucky to get any change from the 8b.

No price on freedom.

That would breah the GFA and WA and break international law

Just as ireland broke the treaty of windsor etc etc. Whats good for the goose....

4.5 Yrs and still nobody knows what the UK wants.

completely out the eu , no eu courts , no customs union and no eu fees. We want to freely trade with you , if not  ta ta.

Stop playing daft...it has been spelled out time and agin for four years.

Before you ask I'm interested to see how it unfolds and that's why I watch whats happening.

14 weeks to go so no much more to watch .4 weeks till the ni issue gets sorted , then another ten till fully out and big party at hogmanay celebrating.

[GerryT]

The checks and infrastructure were already being put in place. He wasnt lying.
As i understand it , Johnson signed the WA on the belief the eu were going to do a FTD with the uk.
As talks progressed, the uk government realised the eu had abolutely no intention of doing a FTD with the uk , and merely wished to punish us for leaving the block in the hope that no other country would follow.

Johnson was lying, he said there would be no checks between NI and the UK, he said that in NI to the NI assembly. He said on customs forms "If somebody asks you to do that, tell them to ring up the prime minister and I will direct them to throw that form in the bin."
But his reason for the recent Act was to ensure there was unfettered trade between UK and NI. Lies and more lies.
NI needs border infrastructure for trade between NI and every other country in the world. It wasn't intended for NI to GB.
The EU absolutely has intent on a FTA with the UK, it's just the UK has unrealistic expectations. If there was a comprehensive FTA then there would be no need for the WA. Ergo the purpose of the WA was to cover the eventuality that a FTA couldn't be negotiated.
Your trollop is an excuse to try wriggle out of the WA treaty.
The EU has no intent on punishing the UK, more exceptionalism thinking. In the political declaration the EU and UK outlined its plan for a future trade deal, this was done in conjunction with the WA so saying now that "level playing field" is unfair is misleading. The UK knew the shape of the FTA, it's the UK that's dragging it's heels. From the political declaration
Section 21 However, with a view to facilitating the movement of goods across borders, the Parties envisage comprehensive arrangements that will create a free trade area, combining deep regulatory and customs cooperation, underpinned by provisions ensuring a level playing field for open and fair competition, as set out in Section XIV of this Part.
Doesn't sound much like a simple canada style deal.
This on the ECHR that Johnson is also saying he wants to leave, but its in the political declaration
section 7 The future relationship should incorporate the United Kingdom's continued commitment to respect the framework of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), while the Union and its Member States will remain bound by the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, which reaffirms the rights as they result in particular from the ECHR

I could go on

Its a disgracefull situation , were they have been getting £8 billion per annum in fees and a net £80 billion trade , with the promise of the £40 billion withrawal payment and the eu are prepared to stitch the uk up as punishment for leaving.
Now you claim its johnson who has been lying , when everyone can see the game the eu have been playing from day one.

How much will it cost the UK per yr to do all the things the EU does for that 8b, customs, regulatory bodies, vet inspections, certification etc... You'll be very very lucky to get any change from the 8b.
The UK has been getting a market of 450m people and a GDP of 18T to sell into. That will now have tariffs, how much will the UK loose.
There is no promise of paying your 40b (I think its now near 30b), that's now in the treaty and a legal requirement.
The UK can have as close or as loose an arrangement it wants with the EU. It's up to the UK to decide what red lines it has they are prepared to drop. The EU position is as open and transparent as it was back in 2016. Remember the barnier step options (see attached) for deals, it's as relavent today as it was in 2016. What your experiencing is finding out the EU wasn't going to cave or "they need us more than we need them" or "they'll blink first". Time to grow up and stop the games and WW11 analogues.

I say drag ni out , or offer them a border poll with the provision if they remain , a border goes up and no cherry picking  , they are either in the eu reunited with eire or out with the uk , and then feck the FTD , hard brexit and take our chances.

That would breah the GFA and WA and break international law

4 half years now of the eu messing everyone about because they can't accpet uk democracy. Party over , 14 weeks to go.
Lets be clear , the uk public are in full agreement and knowledge if there is no free trade deal done , then the blame lays fully at brussells door.

4.5 Yrs and still nobody knows what the UK wants. Where's the UK document outlining the trade deal they want, even something like the barnier map. The UK has spent 4.5 yrs arguing with itself, playing to UK media and to the UK public.
It should have spent more time planning and dealing with the EU.
The EU continues to wait for the UK to tell the EU what it wants. The EU has told the UK what's on offer, the UK won't engage. It has a cherry picking attitude, with alot of red lines.
Personally I think there's no time left unless the UK totally capitulates and does another 180, it's done it before so Johnson might just do that. But the Eu isn't worried, doesn't care what the UK politicians say to the UK people. It's just noise and nobody is listening. Eventually the UK will elect a Govt, that isn't full of idiots. At that point a trade deal will be brokered. Really Brexit is a non topic now in the EU, as Jan looms the EU has all ready moved on to deal with its own business. It would like a deal, but it's no longer a high or medium priority, its way down the list.
Before you ask I'm interested to see how it unfolds and that's why I watch whats happening.

[T00ts]

What I'm talking about is Johnson saying no checks between NI and GB and after that he's signing contracts to put in place customs checks between GB and NI.

The checks and infrastructure were already being put in place. He wasnt lying.

As i understand it , Johnson signed the WA on the belief the eu were going to do a FTD with the uk.

As talks progressed, the uk government realised the eu had abolutely no intention of doing a FTD with the uk , and merely wished to punish us for leaving the block in the hope that no other country would follow.

Its a disgracefull situation , were they have been getting £8 billion per annum in fees and a net £80 billion trade , with the promise of the £40 billion withrawal payment and the eu are prepared to stitch the uk up as punishment for leaving.

Now you claim its johnson who has been lying , when everyone can see the game the eu have been playing from day one.

I say drag ni out , or offer them a border poll with the provision if they remain , a border goes up and no cherry picking  , they are either in the eu reunited with eire or out with the uk , and then feck the FTD , hard brexit and take our chances.

4 half years now of the eu messing everyone about because they can't accpet uk democracy. Party over , 14 weeks to go.

Lets be clear , the uk public are in full agreement and knowledge if there is no free trade deal done , then the blame lays fully at brussells door.

...and that for me is the whole point. May 'negotiated' a WA which was a mess. In the time allowed change was the best we could achieve banging our heads against a brick wall. But we were stupid enough to believe that the carrot held out to us of a FTD was real and honest. Like heck it was and ever since they have done everything possible to withdraw it unless we are bent so far that we break.

Thank goodness that we are not prepared to bend and if that means we have to take drastic action not to be abused then so be it. Bullies are always cowards at heart.

[Thomas]

What I'm talking about is Johnson saying no checks between NI and GB and after that he's signing contracts to put in place customs checks between GB and NI.

The checks and infrastructure were already being put in place. He wasnt lying.

As i understand it , Johnson signed the WA on the belief the eu were going to do a FTD with the uk.

As talks progressed, the uk government realised the eu had abolutely no intention of doing a FTD with the uk , and merely wished to punish us for leaving the block in the hope that no other country would follow.

Its a disgracefull situation , were they have been getting £8 billion per annum in fees and a net £80 billion trade , with the promise of the £40 billion withrawal payment and the eu are prepared to stitch the uk up as punishment for leaving.

Now you claim its johnson who has been lying , when everyone can see the game the eu have been playing from day one.

I say drag ni out , or offer them a border poll with the provision if they remain , a border goes up and no cherry picking  , they are either in the eu reunited with eire or out with the uk , and then feck the FTD , hard brexit and take our chances.

4 half years now of the eu messing everyone about because they cant accpet uk democracy. Party over , 14 weeks to go.

Lets be clear , the uk public are in full agreement and knowledge if there is no free trade deal done , then the blame lays fully at brussells door.