Times-Yougov Poll: Lab Levels w/ Tories For 1st Time Under Stammer

[papasmurf]

The question is will they appear to be united. ?

I would have though that to be impossible, any more than the Tories can ever appear to be united.

[Good old]

And if Labour remain united

When were they united? (Puzzled.)

That's not the question. The question is will they appear to be united. ?  No party is ever more in the electorates eyes than , as they appear to be.

[papasmurf]

And if Labour remain united

When were they united? (Puzzled.)

[Good old]

Right at the moment, these polls are reflecting the dissatisfaction surrounding the governments handling of Covid. It's a single issue that tends to swing polls. In the new year if the brexit issue appears to have been botched , then the polls may show an even bigger swing. And then of course there will be a lot of dissatisfaction , due to unemployment ,and failed businesses.  The Tories, will however still have four years to abandon Johnson and stage a fight back.
Whatever , it's already clear how fickle electorates get under pressure. And if Labour remain united and patient then as I have said before , Starmer , and his party are not out of the picture by a long way.

[Borg Refinery]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-conservative-opinion-poll-opinium-keir-starmer-boris-johnson-b631015.html%3famp

[Forum admin]

There is already a thread on this

Topics merged.

[Thomas]

The postal vote is a firm favourite of the red cheek of the westminster party arse.

I know all about it Thomas, if you remember a few years ago, we had people checking registers and following Ballot boxes. I do believe one or two were caught out because of it. Made the papers I do believe.

Wasnt that the labour party in the peterborough by election?

Nice polite labour canvassers telling the poor old dears that they would help them fill in their postal votes.

[Thomas]

I can see the day coming steve , when labour tory and liberal morph into the unionist party in scotland to fight the snp......and when that happens , i am going to laugh my feckin head off when you start talking to me about policy and moderate left wing morals.

Labour council boss rescued by Tory votes


The Labour leader of North Lanarkshire Council has survived a vote about his future after being bailed out by the Conservatives.

Jim Logue has been urged by the council's SNP opposition to step aside pending a police enquiry into the financial activity of two council-linked companies he was involved in.

The motions were defeated 40-33 when Labour and Tory councillors voted together.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15486836.labour-council-boss-rescued-by-tory-votes/

...and dont dare insult my intelligence by saying the labour councilors were all blairites. Many of them were new handpicked councillors from the momentum cult recently installed in may 2017.

[Thomas]

Scottish voting intentions for Westminster:

SNP 51%
Labour 21%
Conservatives 20%
Liberal Democrats 6%

There is a slight bounce for starmer and labour in scotland at the minute , with labour for the first time in over 18 months now back in second place.

However , they are still 6 points behind where corbyn had labour , and on top of that , i think much of it is less to do with starmers popualrity than wee dougie ross taking over the tories and him and his boss being pretty much unpopular.

This poll is pretty insignificant , and the small movement not being enough to get them into power at either scottish or uk level.

Labours problems remain the same , they are fighting for a small share of the ever decreasing unionist vote with the tories and liberals in scotland.

[Thomas]

Apparrently, Starmer has drawn level with Johnson in opinion polls, as support for Labour rises and support for Johnson plummets. More people regard Starmer as prime ministerial than the prime minister,

Now everyone here knows I don't trust Starmer, but I put this polling out there for general discussion. The polling was even done for an anti-Labour rag....

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8750285/Boris-Starmer-tied-opinion-polls-38-think-Starmer-looks-like-PM-waiting.html

There is already a thread on this https://pol-tics.com/index.php/topic,1842.0.html

[srb7677]

Apparrently, Starmer has drawn level with Johnson in opinion polls, as support for Labour rises and support for Johnson plummets. More people regard Starmer as prime ministerial than the prime minister,

Now everyone here knows I don't trust Starmer, but I put this polling out there for general discussion. The polling was even done for an anti-Labour rag....

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8750285/Boris-Starmer-tied-opinion-polls-38-think-Starmer-looks-like-PM-waiting.html

[Borg Refinery]

I don't think I am blaming the kids. They are only doing what they have been shown - they largely know no better. I blame the decisions made by those raising them including governments.

Maybe, but literacy rates have gone up, education in many areas has gone up.

It's not perfect as you say, but remember that folks like Trumpf and global counterparts directly say they "love the uneducated" and that they mostly vote for em'.

Just sayin'.

The State has over the years taken more and more responsibility for children and I stand by my belief that it is a failed experiment. The ideology that we are all the same and therefore all children need to be taught the same, without competition or failure has been the biggest disaster.

Weren't teachers and schools utterly hated in the old days? Reading the "my old school experiences" thread read like the lyrics to another brick in the wall....

Didn't loads of kids graduate with no O levels?

Surely society failed them then too? Perhaps just in a different way.

We have allowed them to believe that the world is their oyster and bad things can't happen. We haven't given them the tools to cope.

I've seen no evidence of this compared to prev gens.

They are going to have to cope with the way things currently are.

Blair did a huge amount of damage in his 13 years and we still haven't recovered and it will take a huge shift in mindset to change it.

Yes, him and everyone since incl Gove.

The troll will go and I never appreciated Hague either. I am still looking for a real stateman/woman somewhere in this country before we hit the skids, but they will need to brave in a way that we haven't been for a long time. I'm sick of so many wimps.

We have already shat the skids thanks to so many Tory wimps and prots in 'high' office.

The problem is as you say, there's no one better - no better calibre politician to replace em'. They are all utter twits and pillocks, they sound like the Toryboy sketches when they speak in the commons..actually, that's an insult..to Toryboy!

[Sheepy]

Why yes, with a pink troll adorning reality!

The Troll is entirely your fault. But if you start talking safety nets for my generation then you are far off the wall.  Until I was 9  I lived in one room with shared kitchen and bathroom with 2 other families. As a newborn it was worse. A partitioned cubicle in a rest centre if you know what that was. My parents made sure I worked hard and I got where I did through hard graft and effort. They worked hard too, it was a disgrace not to then. That meant that by 7 I was a latch key kid who lit a coal fire and started cooking before parents got home.

Housing was tough. Houses without front gardens were not mortgageable. Building societies typically valued properties lower than the sale price so you either looked for more money, a drop in price or walked away. Most of us rented for years with boxes for furniture. We were lucky if we had a cooker and bed. Don't tell me about having it easy. We have paid for pensions ever since day one at work and we were promised payback. I remember my parents paying for the GP appointment.  Yes there were county grants for further education, but university courses then weren't the dumbed down heavy drinking playtime that they are now. If your parents were well off there was no grant. Those who were not able worked at 15 years. It wasn't a rite of passage to go to uni, pretending that no matter what course you did you were entitled to start work at the top of the pay scale. More than that youngsters expected to start low paid not kid themselves that they were as good as someone who had worked for years.

Don't imagine that everything that is wrong or unjust is my generation's fault, or I will really get mad. I have lived through it all and have the personal experience and memory. I was neither helicopter parented or allowed to be woke. Warning: I have my boots on ready to start walking.

Fair enough.

I'm not suggesting that it's all your generation's fault, but to deny that kids today have it rough is extremely unfair. You're saying it's so easy etc etc, that's just not true at all.

There were more opportunities available a couple of decades ago, I've seen no one deny that because it would be daft to. You can definitely in part blame Nu Lab for that, but the point stands.

Simply blaming the young for most ills in society is as ridiculous as blaming the old. This Tory party blame everyone except the ultra well-off... let's feck off the young and the old in equal measure.

And we have folks like Borkie saying Bojo is a dishonest amoral nasty type and he's proud of Bojo for that. Yet Bojo would happily sacrifice those shielding even if they voted for him!

Where's the logic in that?

Just so you know, I really am only joking with the troll/Hague commens etc, please don't turn into sheep and try to headbutt me on every thread. 

I don't think I am blaming the kids. They are only doing what they have been shown - they largely know no better. I blame the decisions made by those raising them including governments. The State has over the years taken more and more responsibility for children and I stand by my belief that it is a failed experiment. The ideology that we are all the same and therefore all children need to be taught the same, without competition or failure has been the biggest disaster. We have allowed them to believe that the world is their oyster and bad things can't happen. We haven't given them the tools to cope. Blair did a huge amount of damage in his 13 years and we still haven't recovered and it will take a huge shift in mindset to change it.

The troll will go and I never appreciated Hague either. I am still looking for a real stateman/woman somewhere in this country before we hit the skids, but they will need to brave in a way that we haven't been for a long time. I'm sick of so many wimps.

Well I am suprised Thomas isn't splitting his sides, having lived on council estates in the 80s and 90s, those poor kids today.

[T00ts]

Why yes, with a pink troll adorning reality!

The Troll is entirely your fault. But if you start talking safety nets for my generation then you are far off the wall.  Until I was 9  I lived in one room with shared kitchen and bathroom with 2 other families. As a newborn it was worse. A partitioned cubicle in a rest centre if you know what that was. My parents made sure I worked hard and I got where I did through hard graft and effort. They worked hard too, it was a disgrace not to then. That meant that by 7 I was a latch key kid who lit a coal fire and started cooking before parents got home.

Housing was tough. Houses without front gardens were not mortgageable. Building societies typically valued properties lower than the sale price so you either looked for more money, a drop in price or walked away. Most of us rented for years with boxes for furniture. We were lucky if we had a cooker and bed. Don't tell me about having it easy. We have paid for pensions ever since day one at work and we were promised payback. I remember my parents paying for the GP appointment.  Yes there were county grants for further education, but university courses then weren't the dumbed down heavy drinking playtime that they are now. If your parents were well off there was no grant. Those who were not able worked at 15 years. It wasn't a rite of passage to go to uni, pretending that no matter what course you did you were entitled to start work at the top of the pay scale. More than that youngsters expected to start low paid not kid themselves that they were as good as someone who had worked for years.

Don't imagine that everything that is wrong or unjust is my generation's fault, or I will really get mad. I have lived through it all and have the personal experience and memory. I was neither helicopter parented or allowed to be woke. Warning: I have my boots on ready to start walking.

Fair enough.

I'm not suggesting that it's all your generation's fault, but to deny that kids today have it rough is extremely unfair. You're saying it's so easy etc etc, that's just not true at all.

There were more opportunities available a couple of decades ago, I've seen no one deny that because it would be daft to. You can definitely in part blame Nu Lab for that, but the point stands.

Simply blaming the young for most ills in society is as ridiculous as blaming the old. This Tory party blame everyone except the ultra well-off... let's feck off the young and the old in equal measure.

And we have folks like Borkie saying Bojo is a dishonest amoral nasty type and he's proud of Bojo for that. Yet Bojo would happily sacrifice those shielding even if they voted for him!

Where's the logic in that?

Just so you know, I really am only joking with the troll/Hague commens etc, please don't turn into sheep and try to headbutt me on every thread. 

I don't think I am blaming the kids. They are only doing what they have been shown - they largely know no better. I blame the decisions made by those raising them including governments. The State has over the years taken more and more responsibility for children and I stand by my belief that it is a failed experiment. The ideology that we are all the same and therefore all children need to be taught the same, without competition or failure has been the biggest disaster. We have allowed them to believe that the world is their oyster and bad things can't happen. We haven't given them the tools to cope. Blair did a huge amount of damage in his 13 years and we still haven't recovered and it will take a huge shift in mindset to change it.

The troll will go and I never appreciated Hague either. I am still looking for a real stateman/woman somewhere in this country before we hit the skids, but they will need to brave in a way that we haven't been for a long time. I'm sick of so many wimps.

[Borg Refinery]

Why yes, with a pink troll adorning reality!

The Troll is entirely your fault. But if you start talking safety nets for my generation then you are far off the wall.  Until I was 9  I lived in one room with shared kitchen and bathroom with 2 other families. As a newborn it was worse. A partitioned cubicle in a rest centre if you know what that was. My parents made sure I worked hard and I got where I did through hard graft and effort. They worked hard too, it was a disgrace not to then. That meant that by 7 I was a latch key kid who lit a coal fire and started cooking before parents got home.

Housing was tough. Houses without front gardens were not mortgageable. Building societies typically valued properties lower than the sale price so you either looked for more money, a drop in price or walked away. Most of us rented for years with boxes for furniture. We were lucky if we had a cooker and bed. Don't tell me about having it easy. We have paid for pensions ever since day one at work and we were promised payback. I remember my parents paying for the GP appointment.  Yes there were county grants for further education, but university courses then weren't the dumbed down heavy drinking playtime that they are now. If your parents were well off there was no grant. Those who were not able worked at 15 years. It wasn't a rite of passage to go to uni, pretending that no matter what course you did you were entitled to start work at the top of the pay scale. More than that youngsters expected to start low paid not kid themselves that they were as good as someone who had worked for years.

Don't imagine that everything that is wrong or unjust is my generation's fault, or I will really get mad. I have lived through it all and have the personal experience and memory. I was neither helicopter parented or allowed to be woke. Warning: I have my boots on ready to start walking.

Fair enough.

I'm not suggesting that it's all your generation's fault, but to deny that kids today have it rough is extremely unfair. You're saying it's so easy etc etc, that's just not true at all.

There were more opportunities available a couple of decades ago, I've seen no one deny that because it would be daft to. You can definitely in part blame Nu Lab for that, but the point stands.

Simply blaming the young for most ills in society is as ridiculous as blaming the old. This Tory party blame everyone except the ultra well-off... let's feck off the young and the old in equal measure.

And we have folks like Borkie saying Bojo is a dishonest amoral nasty type and he's proud of Bojo for that. Yet Bojo would happily sacrifice those shielding even if they voted for him!

Where's the logic in that?

Just so you know, I really am only joking with the troll/Hague commens etc, please don't turn into sheep and try to headbutt me on every thread.