Next GE

[Borg Refinery]

And any major changes in my own stance will not be taken lightly, certainly not at the behest of a couple of random anonymous posters on an obscure politics forum.

Not sure anyone expects you to 'change' your beliefs, but you can't tell us you're Labour but not Labour.

Voting for someone once and mildly supporting them is a billion light years away from being in the party as an activist. You will attract criticism for it, it is expected.

Already I and others have pointed out that Starmer has done some horrific things, you seem to have completely skipped over that, you haven't denied them but you have ignored them.

How active an activist I am going to be and who and what for remains to be seen. As for some of Starmer's decisions, they are worrying. The sacking of Long Bailey and the abject surrender to those wreckers we had a good case against stand out. But nevertheless I am awaiting developments on policy.

If the left walk away we hand the party to our enemies. We need to stay and fight.

It's priorities for you.  Is it to destroy a large percentage of people that come some way toward you?. Or is it to destroy your real everlasting enemy the Tories, who will only ever seek your destruction?
If you reject people already closer to your cause you isolate yourself. Up to now that's the advice you are getting.

I tend to keep my friends close and and my enemies further away and yet piss them both off in equal measure. 

[Borg Refinery]

And any major changes in my own stance will not be taken lightly, certainly not at the behest of a couple of random anonymous posters on an obscure politics forum.

Not sure anyone expects you to 'change' your beliefs, but you can't tell us you're Labour but not Labour.

Voting for someone once and mildly supporting them is a billion light years away from being in the party as an activist. You will attract criticism for it, it is expected.

Already I and others have pointed out that Starmer has done some horrific things, you seem to have completely skipped over that, you haven't denied them but you have ignored them.

How active an activist I am going to be and who and what for remains to be seen. As for some of Starmer's decisions, they are worrying. The sacking of Long Bailey and the abject surrender to those wreckers we had a good case against stand out. But nevertheless I am awaiting developments on policy.

If the left walk away we hand the party to our enemies. We need to stay and fight.

I don't agree, but I wish you the best in whatever you do cause you seem like a nice enough chap with your heart in the right place.

[Good old]

And any major changes in my own stance will not be taken lightly, certainly not at the behest of a couple of random anonymous posters on an obscure politics forum.

Not sure anyone expects you to 'change' your beliefs, but you can't tell us you're Labour but not Labour.

Voting for someone once and mildly supporting them is a billion light years away from being in the party as an activist. You will attract criticism for it, it is expected.

Already I and others have pointed out that Starmer has done some horrific things, you seem to have completely skipped over that, you haven't denied them but you have ignored them.

How active an activist I am going to be and who and what for remains to be seen. As for some of Starmer's decisions, they are worrying. The sacking of Long Bailey and the abject surrender to those wreckers we had a good case against stand out. But nevertheless I am awaiting developments on policy.

If the left walk away we hand the party to our enemies. We need to stay and fight.

It's priorities for you.  Is it to destroy a large percentage of people that come some way toward you?. Or is it to destroy your real everlasting enemy the Tories, who will only ever seek your destruction?
If you reject people already closer to your cause you isolate yourself. Up to now that's the advice you are getting.

[srb7677]

And any major changes in my own stance will not be taken lightly, certainly not at the behest of a couple of random anonymous posters on an obscure politics forum.

Not sure anyone expects you to 'change' your beliefs, but you can't tell us you're Labour but not Labour.

Voting for someone once and mildly supporting them is a billion light years away from being in the party as an activist. You will attract criticism for it, it is expected.

Already I and others have pointed out that Starmer has done some horrific things, you seem to have completely skipped over that, you haven't denied them but you have ignored them.

How active an activist I am going to be and who and what for remains to be seen. As for some of Starmer's decisions, they are worrying. The sacking of Long Bailey and the abject surrender to those wreckers we had a good case against stand out. But nevertheless I am awaiting developments on policy.

If the left walk away we hand the party to our enemies. We need to stay and fight.

[Borg Refinery]

And any major changes in my own stance will not be taken lightly, certainly not at the behest of a couple of random anonymous posters on an obscure politics forum.

Not sure anyone expects you to 'change' your beliefs, but you can't tell us you're Labour but not Labour.

Voting for someone once and mildly supporting them is a billion light years away from being in the party as an activist. You will attract criticism for it, it is expected.

Already I and others have pointed out that Starmer has done some horrific things, you seem to have completely skipped over that, you haven't denied them but you have ignored them.

[srb7677]

..It's a bit much to say you're not in a sense part of his project, because I am afraid you are.

Only provisionally until his policy direction becomes apparent. That will be make or break. But I have deep suspicions. I am hardly a dyed in the wall champion of Starmer right now but am still watching and waiting. There are others in the party whom I do support, and I remain as much for them as anything.

I am aware that if I and others like me leave, FPTP dooms us to political death, exactly what the Blairites want to happen. FPTP forces us to fight within the party if we are to win any battles at all. And in that we may win some and we may lose some. Run away and we lose everything. No new party is going to rise anytime soon. If you think it is you are kidding yourself.

And any major changes in my own stance will not be taken lightly, certainly not at the behest of a couple of random anonymous posters on an obscure politics forum. It was several years before I definitively rejected Blair and so much of what he stood for. I will weigh up the pros and cons for a considerable period before making any moves.

[Borg Refinery]

author=srb7677 link=topic=1866.msg39424#msg39424 date=1600874666]

I "freely admit" no such thing. I said the jury is still out on Starmer in terms of policy. If the Blairites get their way and shit all over it I will not support that. Thus far our policies haven't changed.

Now whos twisting?

You are a labour supporter by your own admission first and foremost , and factionalism is merely a diversion your produce when faced with historic criticism. You own labours record as a labour supporter , both good and bad.

Starmer is a blairite , and will produce blairite policies when pushed. At the minute , he is getting away with empty soundbites and contradictory stances to butter up the left in your party , while trying to appeal to the small c tory marginals.

You are that blinded by labour , you can't see because you dont want to see.

I am not that blinded by your bollocks that I will accept that I own everything Labour has ever said or done. I was not a member during the Blair and Brown years, and voted against the party in both 2005 and 2010, as well as in more than one local election. In European elections I often voted Green. I have only been a party member since 2015, and I will under no circumstances publicly support something I disagree with.

You see, I tend to say what I think and think what I say. Your attempt to portray me as some kind of party hack who will always toe the party line no matter what is both laughable to anyone who knows me and rather offensive actually. It is also either stupid or dishonest.

Sorry serb but when you said -

"We are where we are. He was not my choice but he is Labour leader now. And I remain a Labour Party member right now. Thus far as leader he has made some dubious internal decisions, but externally done little except spout empty platitudes. I will give him enough rope to hang himself with, especially re policy. And I will not be told this is wrong by political enemies. I am guided much more by my political friends inside the party and on it's left. All of whom mostly believe in standing and fighting from the inside for what we believe is right. And we will not publicly turn on Starmer until he gives us very solid reasons for doing so, because we need a majority of the membership behind us to effect change.

I know you SNP guys would love to sit back and enjoy the spectacle of WW3 taking place inside Labour, grinning as you munch your popcorn. But we will not dance to your tune on that. I will not."

..It's a bit much to say you're not in a sense part of his project, because I am afraid you are.

[srb7677]

author=srb7677 link=topic=1866.msg39424#msg39424 date=1600874666]

I "freely admit" no such thing. I said the jury is still out on Starmer in terms of policy. If the Blairites get their way and shit all over it I will not support that. Thus far our policies haven't changed.

Now whos twisting?

You are a labour supporter by your own admission first and foremost , and factionalism is merely a diversion your produce when faced with historic criticism. You own labours record as a labour supporter , both good and bad.

Starmer is a blairite , and will produce blairite policies when pushed. At the minute , he is getting away with empty soundbites and contradictory stances to butter up the left in your party , while trying to appeal to the small c tory marginals.

You are that blinded by labour , you can't see because you dont want to see.

I am not that blinded by your bollocks that I will accept that I own everything Labour has ever said or done. I was not a member during the Blair and Brown years, and voted against the party in both 2005 and 2010, as well as in more than one local election. In European elections I often voted Green. I have only been a party member since 2015, and I will under no circumstances publicly support something I disagree with.

You see, I tend to say what I think and think what I say. Your attempt to portray me as some kind of party hack who will always toe the party line no matter what is both laughable to anyone who knows me and rather offensive actually. It is also either stupid or dishonest.

[Thomas]

author=srb7677 link=topic=1866.msg39424#msg39424 date=1600874666]

I "freely admit" no such thing. I said the jury is still out on Starmer in terms of policy. If the Blairites get their way and shit all over it I will not support that. Thus far our policies haven't changed.

Now whos twisting?

You are a labour supporter by your own admission first and foremost , and factionalism is merely a diversion your produce when faced with historic criticism. You own labours record as a labour supporter , both good and bad.

Starmer is a blairite , and will produce blairite policies when pushed. At the minute , he is getting away with empty soundbites and contradictory stances to butter up the left in your party , while trying to appeal to the small c tory marginals.

You are that blinded by labour , you can't see because you dont want to see.

[srb7677]

Twisting things again to suit your own desired narrative. You should know by now that I am no supporter of Blairites and am awaiting developments on policy. Twist that into me cheerleading Blairites all you like. But your fondness for taking someone's words and twisting them into something else which straw man you then attack has been duly noted.

I am not twisting anything steve , im merely taking apart your nonsensical stance on labour and its different factions.

You support the labour party , as we all know , and freely admit to wanting to give the blairites another chance.

I "freely admit" no such thing. I said the jury is still out on Starmer in terms of policy. If the Blairites get their way and shit all over it I will not support that. Thus far our policies haven't changed.

[Borg Refinery]

Are you in contact with Mossad monsieur mouton, do you have their file on me in front of you at sheep HQ as we speak?

LOL you really are not important or influential.

But you don't deny you are in contact with them.   

Yeah via my tin foil hat.

[Thomas]

Twisting things again to suit your own desired narrative. You should know by now that I am no supporter of Blairites and am awaiting developments on policy. Twist that into me cheerleading Blairites all you like. But your fondness for taking someone's words and twisting them into something else which straw man you then attack has been duly noted.

I am not twisting anything steve , im merely taking apart your nonsensical stance on labour and its different factions.

You support the labour party , as we all know , and freely admit to wanting to give the blairites another chance.

[Sheepy]

Are you in contact with Mossad monsieur mouton, do you have their file on me in front of you at sheep HQ as we speak?

LOL you really are not important or influential.

But you don't deny you are in contact with them.   

Yeah via my tin foil hat.

[Borg Refinery]

Are you in contact with Mossad monsieur mouton, do you have their file on me in front of you at sheep HQ as we speak?

LOL you really are not important or influential.

But you don't deny you are in contact with them.   

[Sheepy]

Are you in contact with Mossad monsieur mouton, do you have their file on me in front of you at sheep HQ as we speak?

LOL you really are not important or influential.