Starmer trying to win Indian (Hindu) Extremist Votes

[Borg Refinery]

Sure, but in the meantime I'll remain critical of people killing Christians as Modi is doing btw, with no apologies.

Oh gosh yes totally. I weep over so many injustices in the world with so many people suffering and dying in horrific conditions and circumstances. It is more than we can really imagine far less stop.

..And I won't defend the likes of Bojo or Starmer or anyone else who is simply letting it pass thru with nary a negative comment to say about it.

Maybe that is naive and idealistic, but it is what it is.

[T00ts]

Sure, but in the meantime I'll remain critical of people killing Christians as Modi is doing btw, with no apologies.

Oh gosh yes totally. I weep over so many injustices in the world with so many people suffering and dying in horrific conditions and circumstances. It is more than we can really imagine far less stop.

[Borg Refinery]

Invite the genocidal dictators round to tea and do deals with them, smart move.

That just about sums up neoliberalism.

But surely that is how it's always been. That's not to say it's right but it is one way of attempting influence. Look how many nasty world leaders have been entertained here and given all the trimmings over the decades. It is for a reason.

Exactly.

And look how things have gone, look at how the world is, look at how this country is.

The definition of madness is to keep doing the same thing whilst expecting a different result. 

Just have trust - time will come. It's out of our hands.

Sure, but in the meantime I'll remain critical of people killing Christians as Modi is doing btw, with no apologies.

[T00ts]

Invite the genocidal dictators round to tea and do deals with them, smart move.

That just about sums up neoliberalism.

But surely that is how it's always been. That's not to say it's right but it is one way of attempting influence. Look how many nasty world leaders have been entertained here and given all the trimmings over the decades. It is for a reason.

Exactly.

And look how things have gone, look at how the world is, look at how this country is.

The definition of madness is to keep doing the same thing whilst expecting a different result. 

Just have trust - time will come. It's out of our hands.

[Good old]

Invite the genocidal dictators round to tea and do deals with them, smart move.

That just about sums up neoliberalism.

The sins of the world are to deep and entrenched , to eradicate merely by saying I don't agree.. And to paint Starmer with the  brush of Requiring saintly behaviour, on his part is only realistic as a political ploy.
As for who comes to tea. Governments the world over do business with people with blood on their hands. Usually they have an excuse. Israel. the USA, Russia, UK, Saudi India, China. to name a few that come to have tea with blood on their hands .

[Borg Refinery]

Invite the genocidal dictators round to tea and do deals with them, smart move.

That just about sums up neoliberalism.

But surely that is how it's always been. That's not to say it's right but it is one way of attempting influence. Look how many nasty world leaders have been entertained here and given all the trimmings over the decades. It is for a reason.

Exactly.

And look how things have gone, look at how the world is, look at how this country is.

The definition of madness is to keep doing the same thing whilst expecting a different result. 

[T00ts]

Invite the genocidal dictators round to tea and do deals with them, smart move.

That just about sums up neoliberalism.

But surely that is how it's always been. That's not to say it's right but it is one way of attempting influence. Look how many nasty world leaders have been entertained here and given all the trimmings over the decades. It is for a reason.

[Borg Refinery]

Invite the genocidal dictators round to tea and do deals with them, smart move.

That just about sums up neoliberalism.

[Good old]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cjp.org.in/gujarat-genocide-mystery-of-the-clean-chit/amp/

The Special Investigation Team (SIT) set up by the Supreme Court to investigate Gujarat 2002 violence related cases has not given a 'Clean Chit' to then Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi. In both reports, first filed in May 2010 before the Supreme Court (that includes Chairman RK Raghavan's Comments separately) and the Closure report filed before the Magistrate on 8.2.2012, the SIT has held that while there is evidence and many of the allegations made in the Zakia Jafri Complaint dated 8.6.2006 are true and correct, in its own assessment, this evidence is not prosecutable.
....
D) Modi Justified Killing of Innocents. The inquiry officer (AK Malhotra also notes: "His (Modi) implied justification of the killings of innocent members of the minority community read together with an absence of a strong condemnation of the violence that followed Godhra suggest a partisan stance at a critical juncture when the state had been badly disturbed by communal violence." (Page 153 of the SIT Report to SC, dated May 2010)

..
F) Modi Government Took No Steps to Stop Illegal Bandh. According to the SIT report of 2010 to the SC, the Gujarat government did not take any steps to stop the illegal bandh called by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad on 28 February 2002. On the contrary the BJP had supported the bandh. (Page 69, SIT Report to SC, May 2010)

(It is important to remember that it was Hindu mobs mobilised by the local VHP and BJP leaders in the name of bandhs that had carried out the horrific massacres at Naroda and Gulberg Society on 28 February 2002 and those all over the state over the next days. March 1 was a state wise bandh when massacres at Randhikpur-Sanjeli, Sardarpura, Sesan, Odh, Pandharwada and Kidiad among others took place)
----

It's described as the 'gujarat genocide' by some from what I gather, and he does seem to be culpable.

So folks want us to cosy up to 'nobel prize winning' Aung Sang Suu Kyi next? Who else.. what next then?

Our relationship with Saudi Arabia is a disgrace by the way. But Modi is so much worse.

Sounds as if the British government should openly condemn India. If Starmer is expected to.

Are you saying Starmer should match Boris's moral standard?

Bad move.

Unless  you  are proposing to invite Pope Benedict to be our next leader , you  had better get used to the standards we set  ourselves.  It's called basing ones attitudes on facts of life. And Starmers actions and comments are based on diplomacy and those very facts.

[Good old]

This is a bit horrific and details extremely bloody things happening, so I advise folks to only read if they're not sensitive...

Let's look at the carnage of 2002 first. On 27 February that year, a train coach carrying Hindu pilgrims caught fire in Godhra station in Gujarat. Fifty-eight people died. Within hours and without a shred of evidence, Modi declared that the Pakistani secret services had been to blame; he then had the charred bodies paraded in the main city of Ahmedabad; and let his own party support a state-wide strike for three days. What followed was mass bloodshed: 1,000 dead on official estimates, more than 2,000 by independent tallies. The vast majority of those who died were Muslim. Mobs of men dragged women and young girls out of their homes and raped them. In 2007, the investigative magazine Tehelka recorded boasts from some of the ringleaders. One, Babu Bajrangi, boasted of how he slit open the womb of a pregnant woman.

When BJP supporters try to dismiss the pogrom of 2002 as ancient and contested history, what they are trying to erase is that epic, shameful violence. Other allegations have been made about Modi's direct involvement in the carnage, but the ones I have listed above aren't contested by any serious observer.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/07/narendra-modi-massacre-next-prime-minister-india

There has been a long history of blood letting caused as much by religion as territory. On the Indian continent . No one side of that has clean hands.  The territory remains under Indian control. And  Starmer or anyone else are not obliged  to say that should not be the case.  India, has every right to defend and protect their territory no matter who happens to live on that territory or what their religion might be.  The Pakistanis, would be every bit as severe if they wanted to maintain control of the area.

Wow - so now you are defending Modi's actions in the gujarat genocide and suggesting that Imran Khan, who has won applause from around the world for being a decent and principled - if hedonistic - leader would do the same?

Are you one of those "all Muslims are bad" types then..

No not at all. What I am is someone that thinks it's ridiculous to bring up a situation as contentious as that sorry situation is for the people's of India, and try and pin some kind of moral plaque on just one of our home grown politicians.
When it is without doubt that many of our present group of politicos are happily turning a blind eye to multiple tragedies around the world.
Starmer is saying it is for India, to clean its own mess up. And so it is . That doesn't necessarily mean anything beyond that . 

[Borg Refinery]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cjp.org.in/gujarat-genocide-mystery-of-the-clean-chit/amp/

The Special Investigation Team (SIT) set up by the Supreme Court to investigate Gujarat 2002 violence related cases has not given a 'Clean Chit' to then Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi. In both reports, first filed in May 2010 before the Supreme Court (that includes Chairman RK Raghavan's Comments separately) and the Closure report filed before the Magistrate on 8.2.2012, the SIT has held that while there is evidence and many of the allegations made in the Zakia Jafri Complaint dated 8.6.2006 are true and correct, in its own assessment, this evidence is not prosecutable.
....
D) Modi Justified Killing of Innocents. The inquiry officer (AK Malhotra also notes: "His (Modi) implied justification of the killings of innocent members of the minority community read together with an absence of a strong condemnation of the violence that followed Godhra suggest a partisan stance at a critical juncture when the state had been badly disturbed by communal violence." (Page 153 of the SIT Report to SC, dated May 2010)

..
F) Modi Government Took No Steps to Stop Illegal Bandh. According to the SIT report of 2010 to the SC, the Gujarat government did not take any steps to stop the illegal bandh called by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad on 28 February 2002. On the contrary the BJP had supported the bandh. (Page 69, SIT Report to SC, May 2010)

(It is important to remember that it was Hindu mobs mobilised by the local VHP and BJP leaders in the name of bandhs that had carried out the horrific massacres at Naroda and Gulberg Society on 28 February 2002 and those all over the state over the next days. March 1 was a state wise bandh when massacres at Randhikpur-Sanjeli, Sardarpura, Sesan, Odh, Pandharwada and Kidiad among others took place)
----

It's described as the 'gujarat genocide' by some from what I gather, and he does seem to be culpable.

So folks want us to cosy up to 'nobel prize winning' Aung Sang Suu Kyi next? Who else.. what next then?

Our relationship with Saudi Arabia is a disgrace by the way. But Modi is so much worse.

Sounds as if the British government should openly condemn India. If Starmer is expected to.

Are you saying Starmer should match Boris's moral standard?

Bad move.

[Borg Refinery]

This is a bit horrific and details extremely bloody things happening, so I advise folks to only read if they're not sensitive...

Let's look at the carnage of 2002 first. On 27 February that year, a train coach carrying Hindu pilgrims caught fire in Godhra station in Gujarat. Fifty-eight people died. Within hours and without a shred of evidence, Modi declared that the Pakistani secret services had been to blame; he then had the charred bodies paraded in the main city of Ahmedabad; and let his own party support a state-wide strike for three days. What followed was mass bloodshed: 1,000 dead on official estimates, more than 2,000 by independent tallies. The vast majority of those who died were Muslim. Mobs of men dragged women and young girls out of their homes and raped them. In 2007, the investigative magazine Tehelka recorded boasts from some of the ringleaders. One, Babu Bajrangi, boasted of how he slit open the womb of a pregnant woman.

When BJP supporters try to dismiss the pogrom of 2002 as ancient and contested history, what they are trying to erase is that epic, shameful violence. Other allegations have been made about Modi's direct involvement in the carnage, but the ones I have listed above aren't contested by any serious observer.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/07/narendra-modi-massacre-next-prime-minister-india

There has been a long history of blood letting caused as much by religion as territory. On the Indian continent . No one side of that has clean hands.  The territory remains under Indian control. And  Starmer or anyone else are not obliged  to say that should not be the case.  India, has every right to defend and protect their territory no matter who happens to live on that territory or what their religion might be.  The Pakistanis, would be every bit as severe if they wanted to maintain control of the area.

Wow - so now you are defending Modi's actions in the gujarat genocide and suggesting that Imran Khan, who has won applause from around the world for being a decent and principled - if hedonistic - leader would do the same?

Are you one of those "all Muslims are bad" types then..

[Good old]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cjp.org.in/gujarat-genocide-mystery-of-the-clean-chit/amp/

The Special Investigation Team (SIT) set up by the Supreme Court to investigate Gujarat 2002 violence related cases has not given a 'Clean Chit' to then Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi. In both reports, first filed in May 2010 before the Supreme Court (that includes Chairman RK Raghavan's Comments separately) and the Closure report filed before the Magistrate on 8.2.2012, the SIT has held that while there is evidence and many of the allegations made in the Zakia Jafri Complaint dated 8.6.2006 are true and correct, in its own assessment, this evidence is not prosecutable.
....
D) Modi Justified Killing of Innocents. The inquiry officer (AK Malhotra also notes: "His (Modi) implied justification of the killings of innocent members of the minority community read together with an absence of a strong condemnation of the violence that followed Godhra suggest a partisan stance at a critical juncture when the state had been badly disturbed by communal violence." (Page 153 of the SIT Report to SC, dated May 2010)

..
F) Modi Government Took No Steps to Stop Illegal Bandh. According to the SIT report of 2010 to the SC, the Gujarat government did not take any steps to stop the illegal bandh called by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad on 28 February 2002. On the contrary the BJP had supported the bandh. (Page 69, SIT Report to SC, May 2010)

(It is important to remember that it was Hindu mobs mobilised by the local VHP and BJP leaders in the name of bandhs that had carried out the horrific massacres at Naroda and Gulberg Society on 28 February 2002 and those all over the state over the next days. March 1 was a state wise bandh when massacres at Randhikpur-Sanjeli, Sardarpura, Sesan, Odh, Pandharwada and Kidiad among others took place)
----

It's described as the 'gujarat genocide' by some from what I gather, and he does seem to be culpable.

So folks want us to cosy up to 'nobel prize winning' Aung Sang Suu Kyi next? Who else.. what next then?

Our relationship with Saudi Arabia is a disgrace by the way. But Modi is so much worse.

Sounds as if the British government should openly condemn India. If Starmer is expected to.

[Good old]

This is a bit horrific and details extremely bloody things happening, so I advise folks to only read if they're not sensitive...

Let's look at the carnage of 2002 first. On 27 February that year, a train coach carrying Hindu pilgrims caught fire in Godhra station in Gujarat. Fifty-eight people died. Within hours and without a shred of evidence, Modi declared that the Pakistani secret services had been to blame; he then had the charred bodies paraded in the main city of Ahmedabad; and let his own party support a state-wide strike for three days. What followed was mass bloodshed: 1,000 dead on official estimates, more than 2,000 by independent tallies. The vast majority of those who died were Muslim. Mobs of men dragged women and young girls out of their homes and raped them. In 2007, the investigative magazine Tehelka recorded boasts from some of the ringleaders. One, Babu Bajrangi, boasted of how he slit open the womb of a pregnant woman.

When BJP supporters try to dismiss the pogrom of 2002 as ancient and contested history, what they are trying to erase is that epic, shameful violence. Other allegations have been made about Modi's direct involvement in the carnage, but the ones I have listed above aren't contested by any serious observer.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/07/narendra-modi-massacre-next-prime-minister-india

There has been a long history of blood letting caused as much by religion as territory. On the Indian continent . No one side of that has clean hands.  The territory remains under Indian control. And  Starmer or anyone else are not obliged  to say that should not be the case.  India, has every right to defend and protect their territory no matter who happens to live on that territory or what their religion might be.  The Pakistanis, would be every bit as severe if they wanted to maintain control of the area.

[Borg Refinery]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cjp.org.in/gujarat-genocide-mystery-of-the-clean-chit/amp/

The Special Investigation Team (SIT) set up by the Supreme Court to investigate Gujarat 2002 violence related cases has not given a 'Clean Chit' to then Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi. In both reports, first filed in May 2010 before the Supreme Court (that includes Chairman RK Raghavan's Comments separately) and the Closure report filed before the Magistrate on 8.2.2012, the SIT has held that while there is evidence and many of the allegations made in the Zakia Jafri Complaint dated 8.6.2006 are true and correct, in its own assessment, this evidence is not prosecutable.
....
D) Modi Justified Killing of Innocents. The inquiry officer (AK Malhotra also notes: "His (Modi) implied justification of the killings of innocent members of the minority community read together with an absence of a strong condemnation of the violence that followed Godhra suggest a partisan stance at a critical juncture when the state had been badly disturbed by communal violence." (Page 153 of the SIT Report to SC, dated May 2010)

..
F) Modi Government Took No Steps to Stop Illegal Bandh. According to the SIT report of 2010 to the SC, the Gujarat government did not take any steps to stop the illegal bandh called by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad on 28 February 2002. On the contrary the BJP had supported the bandh. (Page 69, SIT Report to SC, May 2010)

(It is important to remember that it was Hindu mobs mobilised by the local VHP and BJP leaders in the name of bandhs that had carried out the horrific massacres at Naroda and Gulberg Society on 28 February 2002 and those all over the state over the next days. March 1 was a state wise bandh when massacres at Randhikpur-Sanjeli, Sardarpura, Sesan, Odh, Pandharwada and Kidiad among others took place)
----

It's described as the 'gujarat genocide' by some from what I gather, and he does seem to be culpable.

So folks want us to cosy up to 'nobel prize winning' Aung Sang Suu Kyi next? Who else.. what next then?

Our relationship with Saudi Arabia is a disgrace by the way. But Modi is so much worse.