Labour Infighting Thread #423,555

[johnofgwent]

It now looks like Starmer is betraying his pledges to the membership. Now he looks as if he wants to woo the rich by refusing to tax them adequately.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1338965/Labour-Party-news-Sir-Keir-Starmer-Jeremy-corbyn-tax-policy-twitter

"Despite attacking his own party during his speech, Sir Keir will reportedly keep Corbynites happy by promising to increase income tax for the top five percent of earners."

Ah but of course your definition of "adequately" means "drive anyone actually in the business of creating employment in this country out of it ..."

[johnofgwent]

  When was the last time the UK had what you would call a left wing government? If ever? I don't mean a left wing party, I mean a leader with a left wing cabinet elected by a clear majority of the electorate.on the basis of left wing policies?

1945

I was about to say surely one of Harold Wilson's administrations, but then i saw the additional rider that the government had to be elected by a clear majority of the electorate.

On that ground even 1945 does not count, as only 47.7% of the votes cast were for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945_United_Kingdom_general_election

The nearest i can find is 1951, or maybe 1966 if you count Wilson a left wing leader with a left wing cabinet.

The last time a government of any political persuasion actually received a clear majority of votes cast was the 1931 Conservative Government of Stanley Baldwin who got 55% of all votes cast.

[Thomas]

But I will not be told what to do by the likes of Thomas who hates us all anyway. I will be staying and will encourage all other left wingers to stay. But I will not campaign for, nor even vote for, any candidate who is not of the genuine left and will vote against Starmer at every opportunity.

Using the quote tags steve please quote me where i am "telling you what to do" , or who to vote for or which party to be a member of?

Im simply highlighting the complete laughable fallacy of your consistent tactic of blaming all things bad in labours history on the blairites , when by your own admission you are going to keep standing by them no matter whoever is in charge.

So no, I will not be joining the greens just yet however much Thomas wants me to for his own dubiously motivated purposes.

You talk about people twisting what you are saying while you constantly misrepresent what others are saying.

Where did i tell you to join the greens?

All the pictures and comments on this thread , along with some articles , are the comments of labour members and supporters , not me.

These are the people who have a massive problem with sir keir knight of the realm starmer , and im simply highlighting what they are saying.

Unlike you i have no dubiously motivated purpose. Every single person on this forum including you knows my politics and political aim.

Are you somehow suggesting im trying to hide my politics and purpose on here? Cause if you are , you are taking the piss. Most people on here have been on this forum and our old one for years , and know fine well my stance , which unlike you , i am open and honest about.

I wear my heart of my sleeve  ,and stand under my flag , and unlike you i dont need to slink abouit when doing so.

I keep telling you honesty is the best policy , rather than trying to pathetically toss of labours shocking record when in power to some mythical party called the blairites.

This here is your party , the party you support , and you own them and their decisions good and bad.

[Sheepy]

An interesting development, politicians are lying to the public on a daily basis, well who knew?

[papasmurf]

  When was the last time the UK had what you would call a left wing government? If ever? I don't mean a left wing party, I mean a leader with a left wing cabinet elected by a clear majority of the electorate.on the basis of left wing policies?

1945

[DeppityDawg]

So no, I will not be joining the greens just yet however much Thomas wants me to for his own dubiously motivated purposes. If we want to retain left wing policies and eventually remove Starmer without replacing him by someone even more right wing, we have to stay and fight.

Can I ask.a question Lefty?  When was the last time the UK had what you would call a left wing government? If ever? I don't mean a left wing party, I mean a leader with a left wing cabinet elected by a clear majority of the electorate.on the basis of left wing policies?

[srb7677]

It now looks like Starmer is betraying his pledges to the membership. Now he looks as if he wants to woo the rich by refusing to tax them adequately. This all sounds very Blairite and it is hard to avoid the conclusion that that is what it is. Though I should point out that he does not have the powers of a party dictator and policy is still decided at conference.

But I will not be told what to do by the likes of Thomas who hates us all anyway. I will be staying and will encourage all other left wingers to stay. But I will not campaign for, nor even vote for, any candidate who is not of the genuine left and will vote against Starmer at every opportunity.

Only last night we had an NEC nominations meeting via zoom, and the right tried to turn out in force but so did we. 6 of our 9 CLP nominees were left wingers because we were there to vote and we also got our candidate chosen for disabilities officer. Such boringly small victories at the local level, when spread across the entire country, will make a difference taken as a whole. Who sits on the NEC actually matters. Had we all flounced off the right would have nominated an entirely right wing slate.

So no, I will not be joining the greens just yet however much Thomas wants me to for his own dubiously motivated purposes. If we want to retain left wing policies and eventually remove Starmer without replacing him by someone even more right wing, we have to stay and fight.

[Thomas]

Small selection of comments and tweets by the left of the labour party , and they arent happy with starmer.

Wonder how many of the corbyn cult membership will leave the join the greens?

JC's Labour Party built its strength from thousands of small donations by ordinary supporters. Now Labour has gone back to cuddling up to the super rich. The price of their support: Labour's soul, and its very identity as a party of and for the working class. Heartbreaking.

Really not good.  We already have one major party fighting for its circle of rich friends.  We need another party to fight for the rest of us

Bernie Ecclestone & his cigarette advertising money

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1309913779916898304

[Thomas]

SO is Richard Leonard's decision to double down on Labour's opposition to indyref2 a tactical masterstroke? Will it, at the very least, stem any further losses? Let's be brutally honest: that does seem rather unlikely. As Einstein famously didn't say, the definition of insanity is doing exactly the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. All that Leonard has done is restate Labour's commitment to a boneheaded approach that has seen them steadily reduced from Scotland's dominant political force to third-party status, over the course of just six years.

And it's not as if they don't have the potential to fall even further. Recent Panelbase polls suggest that anything between one-third and close to one-half of voters who stuck with Labour in December 2019 want Scotland to become an independent country.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18701403.indyref2-crisis-shows-labour-not-possible-out-tory-tories/

A third up to a half of scottish labour voters from GE19 want scotland to be an independent country , while the vast majority detest the blairites in charge of labour at present.

[Thomas]

Starmer refuses to back tax rises on the rich to pay for Covid response

It's a marked shift in rhetoric from the Corbyn era.

https://leftfootforward.org/2020/07/starmer-refuses-to-back-tax-rises-on-the-rich-to-pay-for-covid-response/

Millionaire Sir Keir Starmer claims he's 'working-class' in cringeworthy pitch

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10583686/sir-keir-starmer-working-class-pitch/

[Thomas]

I don't like Labour.

....but you will attempt to throw a hand grenade into this thread to divert and defend them anyway wont you pat? You status quoers make me laugh pat , standing on a beach trying to hold back the tide of change with your hands as your wee sand castles get washed away.

But I think when it comes to smearing and dishonesty, Alex Salmond appears to have been the victim of a witch-hunt of Kremlinesque proportions orchestrated by SNP actors.

A jury of eight women and five men at the high court in Edinburgh on March 23, found Salmond not guilty of 12 charges of attempted rape, sexual assault and indecent assault

You mean its taken all these months for this story to reach hackney pat?

So it is true what they say about "londoners" not having a clue what happens north of the watford gap?

....but no hang on , barry started a thread on this subject last march and YOU commented on it .......so you must have heard about it?

https://pol-tics.com/index.php/topic,782.0.html

So really as i said you are just throwing in a wee diversion arent you pat?

The nine women involved in the charges were all current or former Scottish government officials,

Let me help translate that for you pat.......british civil servants .

MSPs on the Holyrood committee investigating the Scottish Government's handling of harassment complaints are becoming increasingly frustrated at the lack of openness by witnesses.

British civil servant leslie evans arrogance on the matter has been a sight to behold.



Where are you going with this pat?

Or is it just your usual drive by comment?

There isnt a man woman or child barely in scotland who doesnt know about this story , or the "alphabet women" behind it.

Sturgeon and salmond have played a blinder ,despite the muck that has been thrown at them by the british state. The judeg  didnt just find salmond not guilty , but essentially accussed some of the women of blatantly lieing , yet salmond has done little about it , and maintained a dignified silence? Wonder why that is pat?

Funnily enough  , similar happened to charles stuart parnell , leader of the irish party  , where a sex scandal took him down politically , and what happened?

1921 , Ireland was independent. Funily enough 100 years ago next year.....

her acolytes to keep straight faces with their tongues in their cheeks when discussing others' double dealing duplicity...

Funnily enough its an ongoing debate between me and the poster SRB about the blairites in labour , but then  , debate isnt necessarily something you drive by posters know anything about is it?


Anyway pat hows support for the snp and indy doing.....

Should Scotland be an independent country? (Survation, 2nd-7th September 2020)
Yes 53% (+3)
No 47% (-3)

Scottish voting intentions for Westminster:

SNP 51%
Labour 21%
Conservatives 20%
Liberal Democrats 6%

"Ministers are increasingly nervous that a Scottish breakaway is on the cards (the cabinet was recently briefed that the latest opinion polls show 56% of Scots would vote for independence, and 44% to stay in the UK)."

[patman post]

I don't like Labour. But I think when it comes to smearing and dishonesty, Alex Salmond appears to have been the victim of a witch-hunt of Kremlinesque proportions orchestrated by SNP actors.

A jury of eight women and five men at the high court in Edinburgh on March 23, found Salmond not guilty of 12 charges of attempted rape, sexual assault and indecent assault.

The nine women involved in the charges were all current or former Scottish government officials, or SNP politicians.

Nicola Sturgeon's government has already lost a judicial review started by Salmond into its handling of an internal review of two misconduct complaints against him in 2018.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/23/alex-salmond-acquitted-of-all-charges-in-sexual-assault-trial

Former First Minister Alex Salmond was awarded £512,250 in legal expenses last year after the Scottish Government's handling of two complaints against him was ruled "tainted by apparent bias".

Now the inquiry over government probe into Alex Salmond is hobbled by redacted documents and unanswered questions: it's been an inquiry marked by unreadable documents and opaque answers, of redaction, unminuted meetings and memory loss.

MSPs on the Holyrood committee investigating the Scottish Government's handling of harassment complaints are becoming increasingly frustrated at the lack of openness by witnesses.

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/nothing-to-see-here-inquiry-over-government-probe-into-alex-salmond-hobbled-by-redacted-documents-and-unanswered-questions/

One has to admire the ability of the current First Minister and her acolytes to keep straight faces with their tongues in their cheeks when discussing others' double dealing duplicity...

[Thomas]

Starmer runs out of credibility – and cash – and runs to the rich as Labour supporters run away

It should have been a cakewalk.

Boris Johnson's Conservatives have screwed up the United Kingdom in the worst possible ways since before the December 2019 election. The leader of the main Opposition party should have had hearts and minds of the public, there for the taking.

But the leader in question was Keir Starmer, currently in charge of the Other Conservative Party, currently masquerading under the misnomer 'Labour Party'.

https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2020/09/27/starmer-runs-out-of-credibility-and-cash-and-runs-to-the-rich-as-labour-supporters-run-away/

[Thomas]

[Thomas]

See this is going down well on the left of the labour party. FBU and many others going mental with "cash for access" starmer. Wonder what steve "jury is out on starmer " SRB thinks?

Exc: Labour under Keir Starmer is offering wealthy donors "invite-only strategy updates"

It comes as he seeks to woo those alienated by Corbyn

Per brochure those who "give at the highest level" go on a "journey" including a welcome party hosted by Angela Rayner at conference

I see many labour members and supporters on social media decrying the loss of corbyn and how starmers and those on the right of the party stabbed him in the back.

Not a healthy united party at all .