Good deal or too many concessions?

[Stevlin]

I can still think of 39 billion reasons why a no-deal would be better!!

[Churchill]

The full picture has not emerged yet what both sides come up with later this week hopefully will be a good one for us and EU, we have been on a hiding to nothing for 3 years everything May came up with was undermined weakened on both sides of the Channel and in Commons.



DUP may not be happy they warned Boris last night insisted they would block anything that "traps" Northern Ireland in the European Union, whether single market or customs union.



I have waited decades for this to come about I can wait a few more days

[Thomas]

I am fairly optimistic.



There is not that much difference between this and May's deal. That said, my feeling was that Doris was always angling to back the UK into the EU. I trust Boris to keep the UK (or at least the bit whose politics I can understand and that leaves NI out) out.

Interesting that despite all that has passed over the last three years or so , we seem to be back to where we started.



I posted on the old forum way back in 2014 an article written by the constitutional lawyer aileen mc harg , which stated that the uk wouldnt survive brexit intact.



She rymed off multiple reasons like devolution , GFA , irish border and many many other issues , and so far she has proved to be correct.



England would have been out of the eu years ago if it was on its own , and as everyone can see the big issue for westminster has been the celtic fringe and the desperation to keep the uk together .



We are keeping our powder dry at the minute , and hoping johnson does do a deal so we can get on with the next phase of the brexit fight.



The snp are coming under major and intense pressure now to forge ahead with another indy ref , while telling johnson and westminster to feck right off.



The internal battle to drag the rest of the uk out with you hasnt even begun yet ,and will start the second johnson agrees something concrete with the eu regarding england leaving.

[Borchester]

It always has been. But since it requires the consent of the people of Northern Ireland I can't see much happening. I imagine that Boris has kept the DUP up to speed on the negotiations and since Arlene Foster has yet to rain fire and brimstone on everything, I dare say that the Ulster side is glumly content and the real question being what sort of bung can be expected from the UK government.

Yes but at least if rumours are right, NI have the freedom to choose their future. That's got to be an improvement on May's set up. I just can't see HofC rolling over easily. Corbyn would see his chance of backdoor government fade and would bring in a multi line whip to try and keep control of his lot. What would the 21 or whatever number it is now do? Hammond for a start has an axe to grind since BJ won the leadership and has his posse. I see further chaos. Perhaps I have become a pessimist.

I am fairly optimistic.



There is not that much difference between this and May's deal. That said, my feeling was that Doris was always angling to back the UK into the EU. I trust Boris to keep the UK (or at least the bit whose politics I can understand and that leaves NI out) out.

[Cassie]

It always has been. But since it requires the consent of the people of Northern Ireland I can't see much happening. I imagine that Boris has kept the DUP up to speed on the negotiations and since Arlene Foster has yet to rain fire and brimstone on everything, I dare say that the Ulster side is glumly content and the real question being what sort of bung can be expected from the UK government.

Yes but at least if rumours are right, NI have the freedom to choose their future. That's got to be an improvement on May's set up. I just can't see HofC rolling over easily. Corbyn would see his chance of backdoor government fade and would bring in a multi line whip to try and keep control of his lot. What would the 21 or whatever number it is now do? Hammond for a start has an axe to grind since BJ won the leadership and has his posse. I see further chaos. Perhaps I have become a pessimist.

You're right to be pessimistic, the LIb Undems, Greens and SNP will vote agaisnt anything, there is a possible blackmail of voting for the deal as long as

another referendum is attached. It's a mess.

[T00ts]

The reunification of Ireland might well be on the agenda for the future.

It always has been. But since it requires the consent of the people of Northern Ireland I can't see much happening. I imagine that Boris has kept the DUP up to speed on the negotiations and since Arlene Foster has yet to rain fire and brimstone on everything, I dare say that the Ulster side is glumly content and the real question being what sort of bung can be expected from the UK government.

Yes but at least if rumours are right, NI have the freedom to choose their future. That's got to be an improvement on May's set up. I just can't see HofC rolling over easily. Corbyn would see his chance of backdoor government fade and would bring in a multi line whip to try and keep control of his lot. What would the 21 or whatever number it is now do? Hammond for a start has an axe to grind since BJ won the leadership and has his posse. I see further chaos. Perhaps I have become a pessimist.

[Borchester]

The reunification of Ireland might well be on the agenda for the future.

It always has been. But since it requires the consent of the people of Northern Ireland I can't see much happening. I imagine that Boris has kept the DUP up to speed on the negotiations and since Arlene Foster has yet to rain fire and brimstone on everything, I dare say that the Ulster side is glumly content and the real question being what sort of bung can be expected from the UK government.

[Cassie]

From what I can gather listening to the radio, there will be a  border down the Irish Sea, and NI will remain in the EU custom's union. I think the reason the DUP are happy with it is because they have the chance to pull out of that agreement, making the decision  every 4 years, which means the EU doesn't have to tell them when they can or can't leave a backstop. Of course if a trade deal is agreed then that becomes redundant. It may be wrong and it's only what other people are saying.

From what I understand I think you are absolutely right. It's the fact that it's no longer dependent on EU permissions. My biggest fear is that the Remain lobby in Parliament will be reluctant to give up their current 'power' and will either vote it down just because they can, or worse put conditions, eg another ref with the deal or remain as the question. I only hope that BJ can twist enough arms or instil some real political reason and duty into individual MPs regardless of false party loyalties, to gain a true majority. Only that way will politics have any chance of recovering a little of the trust that they have so stupidly squandered.



There is one other worry of course. If it is still a bad deal can we really go with it? I guess we wait and see.

If the opposition parties don't vote for it, then there should be another vote to put no-deal back on the table. I know that there are about 20 Labour MPs who would vote for Theresa May's deal if that were to come back, so they should vote for this improved' deal. Surprisingly enough, the ones I've checked are all  from constituencies that vote Leave. I agree, no conditions attached. It ticks all the boxes of Labour I think. Of course, the SNP, Greens and Lib Undems won't vote for it.

[T00ts]

From what I can gather listening to the radio, there will be a  border down the Irish Sea, and NI will remain in the EU custom's union. I think the reason the DUP are happy with it is because they have the chance to pull out of that agreement, making the decision  every 4 years, which means the EU doesn't have to tell them when they can or can't leave a backstop. Of course if a trade deal is agreed then that becomes redundant. It may be wrong and it's only what other people are saying.

From what I understand I think you are absolutely right. It's the fact that it's no longer dependent on EU permissions. My biggest fear is that the Remain lobby in Parliament will be reluctant to give up their current 'power' and will either vote it down just because they can, or worse put conditions, eg another ref with the deal or remain as the question. I only hope that BJ can twist enough arms or instil some real political reason and duty into individual MPs regardless of false party loyalties, to gain a true majority. Only that way will politics have any chance of recovering a little of the trust that they have so stupidly squandered.



There is one other worry of course. If it is still a bad deal can we really go with it? I guess we wait and see.

[Cassie]

From what I can gather listening to the radio, there will be a  border down the Irish Sea, and NI will remain in the EU custom's union. I think the reason the DUP are happy with it is because they have the chance to pull out of that agreement, making the decision  every 4 years, which means the EU doesn't have to tell them when they can or can't leave a backstop. Of course if a trade deal is agreed then that becomes redundant. It may be wrong and it's only what other people are saying.

[johnofgwent]

I think the answer to Thomas's expressed bafflement is that as with the Falklands and the islanders who have no wish to become Argentinian, especially since the Argentinians took to killing people to make them, there are significant numbers who do not wish to find their homes sold out to the republicans who took to violence, mayhem and murder a century ago in support of their demand to secede from the union of Great Britain and IRELAND.

[T00ts]

I have suspicions if only because the EU and Varadkar look so pleased. I guess the point is do we want out or not? Not going with this plan may mean we lose it altogether. Nevertheless it makes me nervous.

[Streetwalker]

Its never going to be a good deal for the UK now the conservatives have made a pigs ear of it and leaving without an agreement with the EU is for me the only way we can now go . Any other half in half out scenario including the WA minus the backstop  just kicks the can down the road yet again leading to more uncertainty .

[Barry]

This post from Thomas on the old forum was worth a read.

I suspect he has offered the 6 counties to varadkar in some way.



Its not the first time in history an english conservative prime minister offered ireland the 6 counties in return for something.



As we all know , churchill offered de valera the 6 counties at the start of the second world war in return for the royal navy being allowed to use irish ports.



Apart from the usual westminster elite being reluctant to give up conquered land as we have seen throughout history , it has baffled me why England would want to keep hold of 6 counties of an island that left their empire a century ago , has caused nothing but trouble in that time in terms of soldiers lives and civilians lives lost , not to mention the billions upon billions in terms of subsidy and security to hold onto 6 small counties where half the population dont want to be "british " in the first place and many where willing to take up arms to fight against westminster.



We will have to wait and see of course , but as i suspected from the start , i think the daft unionists are being shafted yet again.



When will that mob ever learn?

Hope it's OK to bring this across, as I don't see much point in posting there any more.



The reunification of Ireland might well be on the agenda for the future. Where did I read, "we are all atheists and capitalist,now", perhaps that has a greater bearing on what may happen, although for some, it's obvious the scars have not properly healed.

[Cassie]

We don't know for sure, but I think Bojo has made a huge concession. DUP won't go for it if it's affecting NI and it's links with the UK.