Ego

[Barry]

I understand that most people when they really examine themselves and their thoughts are not that enamoured with what they see. Some people find that they don't really like themselves. MY mind and thoughts etc.
On the spiritual level, Christianity asks that we die to self and live in Christ, which turns the whole idea of needing to know ourselves better upside down.

[T00ts]

In a secular world there is little evident introspection unless as you say it is taught in some way.

I do believe that my faith and study of the Scriptures has in fact allowed me to develop an understanding that is not quite so prevalent in in a world so dominated by the idea that self is all there is.

I think you're making a distinction without a difference here.

'In a secular world you have to be taught X.... In a faith based world you can study X'

I think the idea of being taught about the Ego and studying the Ego are interchangeable here, and so the same.

Study of the Ego is independent of religion/faith.

I have given this post a lot of thought and would ask you a question. Do you consider it possible to understand the concept of Ego on a purely cerebral level? I ask this because looking so deeply within ourselves for me reveals a depth that confirms a Spiritual self. Your comment about being taught as against learning from Scripture  makes me wonder how you align that comprehension with a concept of no future existence or no Spiritual being. (I use the term you loosely here)

[johnofgwent]

Ok.

Forty four years ago someone pickpocketed my wallet while I stood in a queue of wannabe lawyers.

The bastard took my money but deprived me of my provisional driving licence. In those days you still had to.produce it to take a driving test - literally months later the dept of transport changed the rules allowing you to just cite your driver number - and as as a direct result this (there is mo alternative to te c word for them) made me go down in history as the last person in south wales if not in the whole of wales to fail a driving test through not being able to.orovide a licence.

That was my money, my loss, my opportunity stolen from me and there will never be a millisecond when that will not be my loss.

You can take your ego blind spot and shove it where the sun does not shine

It was october 1976 and

[Nalaar]

In a secular world there is little evident introspection unless as you say it is taught in some way.

I do believe that my faith and study of the Scriptures has in fact allowed me to develop an understanding that is not quite so prevalent in in a world so dominated by the idea that self is all there is.

I think you're making a distinction without a difference here.

'In a secular world you have to be taught X.... In a faith based world you can study X'

I think the idea of being taught about the Ego and studying the Ego are interchangeable here, and so the same.

Study of the Ego is independent of religion/faith.

[Nalaar]

But do you think so?

I think this was a bad idea. I'll be honest here - I don't think my level of education is up to this kind of discussion. I haven't read, studied (or smoked) any of the stuff you clearly have for my head to be in the places yours is. I simply don't get what points you are attempting to make, or what you wish to get out of these discussions

Sorry. No offence, but I'm out.

No worries, it's not the most accessible topic, and while I have no formal education in it, I have spent a fair bit of time on the theory over the past few years, though my explanations could probably do with quite a bit of work.

[Borg Refinery]

'political unity over common enemies'

Hmm. The enemy of my enemy is my friend is no way to go on.

I think we should accept differences with honesty and not attempt to patch things over for the sake of some false sense of unity.

The post 'one nation' Tory party since Thatcher generally appear to represent unashamed greed, selfish values and total embrace of Egotism as likely the best way forward for the individual and the country.

That just doesn't do it for me, sure Labour are terrible but I can't see how modern Tory values are in any way a rejection of Egotism.

They would seem to embrace it and represent it to the fullest possible extent, IMHO.

Of course, I like and embrace plenty of people who have very different values to me but.. I can't contemplate their party or beliefs in and of itself.

[T00ts]

Who mentioned women? You were defending the record of Thatcherism very defiantly in another thread, you seem to be invoking the woke liberal card to shut down debate and now insinuate I'm being misogynist.  Pastman Pot is rather enamoured by her just as you are, as I had pointed out, so you're not being singled out as a woman are you?

I'm stating that Thatcher's direct praise of greed and avarice is completely at odds with Christian dogma. That is irrefutable

Nonetheless, you seem very defensive of Bojo who is far more misogynist than all the male posters on here combined(!).

Behave yourself. Quite apart from going off topic you seem to have mis-understood my post. So for the sake of clarity I did not mention you or others here, it was referring to Westminster. I am a Conservative and at present support the Government through difficult times, just as I did Thatcher. The country was a difficult place then as now but very different.  I make no apology for that. BJ the same. He has a large majority and should be given chance without angry pups snapping at his heels. I believe that political unity over common enemies is the healthiest way to proceed. All that falling out achieves is to make matters worse. (Not to self - make greater effort at clarity in posts.)

[Borg Refinery]

Who mentioned women? You were defending the record of Thatcherism very defiantly in another thread, you seem to be invoking the woke liberal card to shut down debate and now insinuate I'm being misogynist.  Pastman Pot is rather enamoured by her just as you are, as I had pointed out, so you're not being singled out as a woman are you?

I'm stating that Thatcher's direct praise of greed and avarice is completely at odds with Christian dogma. That is irrefutable

Nonetheless, you seem very defensive of Bojo who is far more misogynist than all the male posters on here combined(!).

[T00ts]

But do you think so?

I think this was a bad idea. I'll be honest here - I don't think my level of education is up to this kind of discussion. I haven't read, studied (or smoked) any of the stuff you clearly have for my head to be in the places yours is. I simply don't get what points you are attempting to make, or what you wish to get out of these discussions

Sorry. No offence, but I'm out.

It is relatively simple. We all have the ability to look around and see if something in front of us is good or evil. We all have the ability to recognise if what we are doing or saying is good or evil or even somewhere in between. The difference for me is that believing in God and His expectation of me in this life that He has given to me, means that I am constantly measuring how my performance relates to that expectation. I confess it's not 24/7 because other things get in the way, but there are certain lines I try very hard not cross. There are influences that are better avoided and ignored. There are actions by others where it is better to walk away while others should be responded to with action that negates them. 'Seeing', to my understanding, is trying to make sure of that awareness but also being aware of ones own responses silent or otherwise to those same influences. The 'blindness' is not realising/understanding any of the above in oneself or others.

I do not agree with Nalaar that most people do not have that understanding or ability. It just isn't recognised for what it is and is therefore not developed. Thinking about it - I think my Dad was the first person to make me aware very young, although I didn't fully understand it then. Perhaps I never will!!

....Well you are a Christian who seems to love Thatcherism so. 

Mmmm Do I love Thatcherism? In the early days a lot of what she said made an awful lots of sense to women. Sadly misogynists were alive and kicking then too. What started out as a relatively simple plan became twisted in the battle of Westminster.

[Borg Refinery]

But do you think so?

I think this was a bad idea. I'll be honest here - I don't think my level of education is up to this kind of discussion. I haven't read, studied (or smoked) any of the stuff you clearly have for my head to be in the places yours is. I simply don't get what points you are attempting to make, or what you wish to get out of these discussions

Sorry. No offence, but I'm out.

It is relatively simple. We all have the ability to look around and see if something in front of us is good or evil. We all have the ability to recognise if what we are doing or saying is good or evil or even somewhere in between. The difference for me is that believing in God and His expectation of me in this life that He has given to me, means that I am constantly measuring how my performance relates to that expectation. I confess it's not 24/7 because other things get in the way, but there are certain lines I try very hard not cross. There are influences that are better avoided and ignored. There are actions by others where it is better to walk away while others should be responded to with action that negates them. 'Seeing', to my understanding, is trying to make sure of that awareness but also being aware of ones own responses silent or otherwise to those same influences. The 'blindness' is not realising/understanding any of the above in oneself or others.

I do not agree with Nalaar that most people do not have that understanding or ability. It just isn't recognised for what it is and is therefore not developed. Thinking about it - I think my Dad was the first person to make me aware very young, although I didn't fully understand it then. Perhaps I never will!!

....Well you are a Christian who seems to love Thatcherism so. 

[T00ts]

But do you think so?

I think this was a bad idea. I'll be honest here - I don't think my level of education is up to this kind of discussion. I haven't read, studied (or smoked) any of the stuff you clearly have for my head to be in the places yours is. I simply don't get what points you are attempting to make, or what you wish to get out of these discussions

Sorry. No offence, but I'm out.

It is relatively simple. We all have the ability to look around and see if something in front of us is good or evil. We all have the ability to recognise if what we are doing or saying is good or evil or even somewhere in between. The difference for me is that believing in God and His expectation of me in this life that He has given to me, means that I am constantly measuring how my performance relates to that expectation. I confess it's not 24/7 because other things get in the way, but there are certain lines I try very hard not cross. There are influences that are better avoided and ignored. There are actions by others where it is better to walk away while others should be responded to with action that negates them. 'Seeing', to my understanding, is trying to make sure of that awareness but also being aware of ones own responses silent or otherwise to those same influences. The 'blindness' is not realising/understanding any of the above in oneself or others.

I do not agree with Nalaar that most people do not have that understanding or ability. It just isn't recognised for what it is and is therefore not developed. Thinking about it - I think my Dad was the first person to make me aware very young, although I didn't fully understand it then. Perhaps I never will!!

[DeppityDawg]

But do you think so?

I think this was a bad idea. I'll be honest here - I don't think my level of education is up to this kind of discussion. I haven't read, studied (or smoked) any of the stuff you clearly have for my head to be in the places yours is. I simply don't get what points you are attempting to make, or what you wish to get out of these discussions

Sorry. No offence, but I'm out.

[Borg Refinery]

Mmmm That's quite a sweeping statement and I'm not sure it is so with most people I know

Sweeping, yes, and you may live surrounded by a bubble of people who are particularly introspective, but if so I think that is an outlier. At the very least it's clear that there is no greater public education on this topic. It is not something that reverberates around popular culture, it is mostly confined to books, and philosophy departments at university's. 

It may be of interest to you to ask the people around you if they consider themselves a thinker of thoughts, a self that experiences in addition to the experience.

This is where we get to the parting of the ways. In a secular world there is little evident introspection unless as you say it is taught in some way. I do believe that my faith and study of the Scriptures has in fact allowed me to develop an understanding that is not quite so prevalent in in a world so dominated by the idea that self is all there is. I have discussions regularly that are very similar to your topic here with friends and family with the same or similar faith and it is created by the need to measure oneself constantly against that standard set for us. It also makes one assess the truth or otherwise of pretty much everything that we meet in life. Interesting subject - thank you.

It says somewhere in the Bible or Chrysostom's liturgy (I forget) "that I may no longer live for myself but for you our Lord and God".

Total elimination of the ego and complete selflessness appears to be the ultimate aim of the Christian, as a hyper egotistical hypocritical sinnin' heathen, I am nowhere near reaching that.

And it has been a good discussion, don't stop folks, carry on.

[T00ts]

Mmmm That's quite a sweeping statement and I'm not sure it is so with most people I know

Sweeping, yes, and you may live surrounded by a bubble of people who are particularly introspective, but if so I think that is an outlier. At the very least it's clear that there is no greater public education on this topic. It is not something that reverberates around popular culture, it is mostly confined to books, and philosophy departments at university's. 

It may be of interest to you to ask the people around you if they consider themselves a thinker of thoughts, a self that experiences in addition to the experience.

This is where we get to the parting of the ways. In a secular world there is little evident introspection unless as you say it is taught in some way. I do believe that my faith and study of the Scriptures has in fact allowed me to develop an understanding that is not quite so prevalent in in a world so dominated by the idea that self is all there is. I have discussions regularly that are very similar to your topic here with friends and family with the same or similar faith and it is created by the need to measure oneself constantly against that standard set for us. It also makes one assess the truth or otherwise of pretty much everything that we meet in life. Interesting subject - thank you.

[Nalaar]

Mmmm That's quite a sweeping statement and I'm not sure it is so with most people I know

Sweeping, yes, and you may live surrounded by a bubble of people who are particularly introspective, but if so I think that is an outlier. At the very least it's clear that there is no greater public education on this topic. It is not something that reverberates around popular culture, it is mostly confined to books, and philosophy departments at university's. 

It may be of interest to you to ask the people around you if they consider themselves a thinker of thoughts, a self that experiences in addition to the experience.