'My bank is shutting my account because of Brexit'

[Borchester]

Barmy Barnier bankrupts British granny.

At least Macron had the decency to marry his.

[BeElBeeBub]

Tbh, as streetwalker said - you really can't trust the Tories, I so wouldn't be surprised if they caved and compromised with the EU when the going get's tough just as I and Brexiters and even some pragmatic remainers have suggested.

Bojo is so incredibly untrustworthy.

I know beel hopes that that happens, but it will inevitably lead to a renewed BXP billionaires banquet where they will likely clean up and take loads of seats.

Honestly, I don't think I do hope for that.  I think the damage is done now.  Any deal will just be used by Johnson and the Leavers as a fig leaf to keep blaming their failures on the EU.

You are right the Johnson is untrustworthy and I do think there is a very good chance of Johnson caving in for a very thin "deal" which he (and leavers) will use to crow "see! we got a deal! told you we could do it! - This deal is amazing!!!".  Then is 6 moths time "the deal is terrible! it's the EU's fault!"

At this point I think we need to lie in the bed we shat in.  So roll on no deal, roll on the UK reneging on the NI protocol and roll on the consequences.

...or worse still, a Starmer govt.

at this point I'd go for competency.  I may distrust labour and may not like many of their political factions but KS seems in a different league when it comes to actual competency (not a high accolade)

I honestly couldn't tell you which is worse, but Tory Remainers who blamed the EU for everything in 2010-2016 now turning around and seeing the result of their blame game stuff, only have themselves to blame for this.

Shouldn'ta supported the ConDems should you!

There is a big dollop of truth in that. The EU has been a convenient scapegoat for British politicians for all their careers.  it is the UK political equivalent of "Health and Safety" - doing something that's unpopular? Blame H&S/EU.  Don't want to do something?  Blame H&S/EU.

[BeElBeeBub]

The report also reveals that the British public is in no doubt that Brexit must mean a full restoration of sovereignty.

By a margin of 49 per cent to 26 per cent, people in so-called battleground 'Red Wall' seats polled by Savanta ComRes for the study agreed with the statement:  "Leaving the EU in 2020, rather than later, will mean that Britain recaptures the national independence it had before it joined the Common Market in 1973 sooner."

https://centreforbrexitpolicy.org.uk/press-releases/brexit-withdrawal-agreement-must-be-replaced-for-uk-to-take-back-full-control/

Sorry, how does a blog post in 2020 have any bearing on the referendum in 2016?

You can't retrospectively change what the referendum question was.  That was literally the argument against any sort of soft brexit, that it wouldn't honor the letter of the 2016 referendum.

It can't be argued that "we must leave the EU rather than negotiate a looser membership because the referendum specifically said leave the EU" and then later say "i want a brexit that goes further that the question".

Did the referendum ask if we should sever all ties?  Did it even say we had to leave either the single market or the customs union (as Norway and Turkey are in each and are not members)?  No it didn't.  It merely said we should cease to be a member and we have.

As for renegotiating the WA, that ship has sailed. 
The WA was renegotiated by the leader of the Leave campaign.  He could have asked for more time, but he didn't.
Accepted by the leader of the Leave campaign. He could have rejected it and we would have had the "no deal brexit" that some here wanted.
Endorsed by the leader of the Leave campaign. He could have campaigned against his WA but instead he hailed it as a great deal.
Voted for by a parliament led by the leader of the Leave campaign.

The WA is 100% the responsibility of the Leave campaign.  If Brexit voters feel they have been sold a pup,they should take it up with the architects of both the leave campaign and the WA and maybe reflect on what else they were lied to about.

[Borg Refinery]

Tbh, as streetwalker said - you really can't trust the Tories, I so wouldn't be surprised if they caved and compromised with the EU when the going get's tough just as I and Brexiters and even some pragmatic remainers have suggested.

Bojo is so incredibly untrustworthy.

I know beel hopes that that happens, but it will inevitably lead to a renewed BXP billionaires banquet where they will likely clean up and take loads of seats.

...or worse still, a Starmer govt.

I honestly couldn't tell you which is worse, but Tory Remainers who blamed the EU for everything in 2010-2016 now turning around and seeing the result of their blame game stuff, only have themselves to blame for this.

Shouldn'ta supported the ConDems should you!

[Thomas]

Sovereignty is the crux of Brexit and the Government recognises this. In the words of the UK's Brexit Chief Negotiator David Frost, sovereignty is not "some clever tactical position" but the "point of the whole project".

Before joining the EEC and then the EU, the UK was a truly independent state. It would agree trading and other arrangements with other countries, and would be free to exit those arrangements. It was not subject to third party decision-making or control.

Membership of the EU, however, is underpinned by a concept of "pooled sovereignty", through which Member States give up a degree of their sovereignty in return for participation in the EU's collective institutions. The result of the 2016 Referendum was an obvious rejection of this approach. Therefore, on exiting the Transition Period (TP), it is vital that the Government ensures that no legal text interferes with the UK returning to a fully sovereign state, consistent with the status quo ante. The UK cannot be asked to concede on aspects of its sovereignty, whatever reasons the EU may concoct.



As things currently stand, this is not the case

https://centreforbrexitpolicy.org.uk/publications/replacing-the-withdrawal-agreement-how-to-ensure-the-uk-takes-back-control-on-exiting-the-transition-period/

[Thomas]

Brexit In Name Only' (BRINO) Is NOT Brexit

In June 2016 the Great British Public took the emphatic decision to Leave the European Union.

The UK voted to Leave the European Union in its entirety. Not half in, half out. Not just 'in name only'. We expect all of our sovereign rights as an independent country to be restored. This can only happen if all of Brussels' jurisdiction is eliminated. If a Deal is to be agreed, it must not compromise on our 'Red Lines'. No more European Court of Justice involvement, no more 'Level Playing Field' and reclaiming our sovereign waters. Only then will we have a true Brexit.

https://getbritainout.org/

Plenty of the brexiter organisations are already piling in , and hve been for quite a while , against the idea that some sort of BRINO or agreement which ties the uk to the eu is in any way acceptable.

We have already went over time and again over the years the absurdity of the uk remaining in the CU , even blair said it took away the only point of brexit he ever saw in the forst place , the ability for the uk to stike its own trade deals to the uks benefit.

Yet we are still in the CU , and you are still trying to sell the continuance of eu institutions and rules over the uk somehow as "brexit".

Its laughable listnng to you beelbeeb , it really is.

If you havent learned by now the public arent as daft as you think them to be  , then more fool you , and be prepared for more kickings politically over your disingenuous bullshit.

The process for leaving the eu has indeed begun , but we are in transition , and wont fully exit the eu till the end of the transition period in 13 weeks time.

[Thomas]

The report also reveals that the British public is in no doubt that Brexit must mean a full restoration of sovereignty.

By a margin of 49 per cent to 26 per cent, people in so-called battleground 'Red Wall' seats polled by Savanta ComRes for the study agreed with the statement:  "Leaving the EU in 2020, rather than later, will mean that Britain recaptures the national independence it had before it joined the Common Market in 1973 sooner."

https://centreforbrexitpolicy.org.uk/press-releases/brexit-withdrawal-agreement-must-be-replaced-for-uk-to-take-back-full-control/

[cromwell]

You can stand and argue with youself till you are blue in the face beelbeeb , but if you actually seriously believe anyone actually thinks the uk has left the eu at present then you are even more deluded than what i take you for.

You have been spouting this BRINO shite for as long as i can remember.

Nothing much has changed in terms of eu membership except withdrawing our meps from their parliament.

And the removal of our commissioner....and losing our seat in the council.  In fact in every way we are no longer a member of the EU.  Both the EU and HMG acknowledge this.

Until Jan we are treated as a member for the purposes of the single market, tariffs, etc but we are not a member.

Withdrawing uk meps from the eu parliament is the definition of brexit now is it?

Since when?

I think we should refer to the referendum question.

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

We are no longer a member.

Yes, the EU and other countries treat us as if we were (until Jan), but being (temporarily) in the single market doesn't make us a member - ask Norway.

Well are the eu sweating on the Swiss referendum on free movement,let's hope despite the threats the Swiss have the balls.

[Thomas]

And the removal of our commissioner....and losing our seat in the council.  In fact in every way we are no longer a member of the EU.  Both the EU and HMG acknowledge this.

Until Jan we are treated as a member for the purposes of the single market, tariffs, etc but we are not a member.

You are merely repeating back to me what im saying to you.

We have lost our representation , but remain in the eu for the purposes of taking rules and paying bills. So we havent fully left yet.

Ending freedom of movement was a major plank of the leave campaign back in 2016 wasnt it , yet that hasnt happend yet.

I think we should refer to the referendum question.

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

We are no longer a member.

You are contradicting yourself mate in the same feckin post.

Until Jan we are treated as a member for the purposes of the single market, tariffs, etc

Yes, the EU and other countries treat us as if we were (until Jan), but being (temporarily) in the single market doesn't make us a member - ask Norway.

More disingenuous bullshit.

Norway isnt in the eu CU, but the uk still is , so the comparison isnt valid.

Is this you now trying to sell an efta type agreement as "brexit"?

Good luck with that.

I thought labour already suggested this pre the december GE and got their arses kicked by the voting public ?

[BeElBeeBub]

You can stand and argue with youself till you are blue in the face beelbeeb , but if you actually seriously believe anyone actually thinks the uk has left the eu at present then you are even more deluded than what i take you for.

You have been spouting this BRINO shite for as long as i can remember.

Nothing much has changed in terms of eu membership except withdrawing our meps from their parliament.

And the removal of our commissioner....and losing our seat in the council.  In fact in every way we are no longer a member of the EU.  Both the EU and HMG acknowledge this.

Until Jan we are treated as a member for the purposes of the single market, tariffs, etc but we are not a member.

Withdrawing uk meps from the eu parliament is the definition of brexit now is it?

Since when?

I think we should refer to the referendum question.

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

We are no longer a member.

Yes, the EU and other countries treat us as if we were (until Jan), but being (temporarily) in the single market doesn't make us a member - ask Norway.

[Thomas]

We are not an EU member. Brexit has happened.

The transition period is just that. A period designed to stop us falling off a cliff.

If your definition of brexit is "to completely escape the influence of the EU", then I have bad news for you....that's not going to happen any more than Canada or Mexico are going to escape the influence of their much bigger neighbor.

Honestly, part of me is looking forward to Jan, because then we won't have to hear brexiter carping on about how we haven't left yet. On the other hand the realistic part of me realised they will never be happy. Blaming someone else for their own messes is their ground state so they simply keep whining about how unfair the EU is and how the fact Brexit has been a disaster is simply because it wasn't "the right" brexit.

You can stand and argue with youself till you are blue in the face beelbeeb , but if you actually seriously believe anyone actually thinks the uk has left the eu at present then you are even more deluded than what i take you for.

You have been spouting this BRINO shite for as long as i can remember.

Nothing much has changed in terms of eu membership except withdrawing our meps from their parliament.

That's the definition of brexit.

Is it now?

Withdrawing uk meps from the eu parliament is the definition of brexit now is it?

Since when?

Honestly, part of me is looking forward to Jan, because then we won't have to hear brexiter carping on about how we haven't left yet. On the other hand the realistic part of me realised they will never be happy. Blaming someone else for their own messes is their ground state so they simply keep whining about how unfair the EU is and how the fact Brexit has been a disaster is simply because it wasn't "the right" brex

I voted remain in 2016 , as i have repeated a million times , and you know what im looking forward to in january?

Not having to listen to the non stop anti democratic whingeing shite taking people for fools that the likes of you have been spouting now for the last four years or more.

Instead of you coming on forums such as this to argue black is white , or white is black , perhaps you will put your efforts post january into your country re joining the eu in some future time by trying to get a party democratically elected into westminster on a mandate to do so instead of disingenuously talking shite on here.

Good luck wae that though , judging how crap your arguments and PR campaign has been over the last four years you are going to need it.

[BeElBeeBub]

We are not an EU member. Brexit has happened.

The transition period is just that. A period designed to stop us falling off a cliff.

Exactly, that's where we are, it hasn't "happened".

It is comical to even insinuate for one second that I'm a Brexiter if that was meant for me. 

No, it's happened.  We are not a member. That's the definition of brexit. The idea that it meant "completely free of all EU jurisdiction" is fantasy. None of the Leave campaigners advocated that, in fact many explicitly ruled that out.  If we had the brexit that the likes of Patterson, IDS, Farage, Hannan etc had advocated we would be in the single market indefinitely.  The transition period and then cliff edge is orders if magnitude further than was campaigned for.

And no, it want directed at you. It was directed at the various leave members.

[Borg Refinery]

We are not an EU member. Brexit has happened.

The transition period is just that. A period designed to stop us falling off a cliff.

Exactly, that's where we are, it hasn't "happened".

It is comical to even insinuate for one second that I'm a Brexiter if that was meant for me. 

[BeElBeeBub]

We are not an EU member. Brexit has happened.

The transition period is just that. A period designed to stop us falling off a cliff.

If your definition of brexit is "to completely escape the influence of the EU", then I have bad news for you....that's not going to happen any more than Canada or Mexico are going to escape the influence of their much bigger neighbor.

Honestly, part of me is looking forward to Jan, because then we won't have to hear brexiter carping on about how we haven't left yet. On the other hand the realistic part of me realised they will never be happy. Blaming someone else for their own messes is their ground state so they simply keep whining about how unfair the EU is and how the fact Brexit has been a disaster is simply because it wasn't "the right" brexit.

[Thomas]

That is a bit disingenuous to be fair.

thats our beely.....disingenuous with a large dose of sneering contempt.

If it makes him feel better we are all looking forward to the end of the transition period in december.