Why does God let it happen?

[DeppityDawg]

You didn't do anything other than provide a circular argument, which you yourself would (sensibly) reject when presented as reasoning for belief of any other religion

Can I ask a question? Does the fact that (in this case Barry and Toots) someone has faith, does it annoy you/irritate you/dismay you? You seem to spend an awful lot of time on this thread attempting to undermine (if thats the right word) their faith?

If I were a Muslim (or a Sikh or a Jew), would you expend similar amounts of effort undermining my faith? Its just an observation. I seem to see left wing liberals attacking christians off the bat, but I see far less (if any) attacks on other faiths?

I just wondered why that might be. My own mother was a devout christian btw. I'm not, but I would never dream of attempting to undermine other peoples faith in the way you seem to be doing

[Nalaar]

Dismiss whatever you like.
You've heard the gospel on this forum from at least two of us and rejected it. I can't do anything more for you.

You didn't do anything other than provide a circular argument, which you yourself would (sensibly) reject when presented as reasoning for belief of any other religion.

[T00ts]

Both these responses are tautological, in that they require someone to accept your beliefs about Jesus in order for those beliefs to be justified.

Consider - I know a Buddhist who claim that when they became Buddhist they saw a light that they have no previously seen, and when I press them on the issue they respond with very similar statements to the ones you both have made here 'I need to study Buddhist texts more' 'I need to accept that this is a personal connection that you can not understand unless you experience it' etc.

I assume (like me) you both don't believe the claims of the Buddhist, please recognize that the same reasoning that you are using to dismiss his claims is the reasoning I'm using to dismiss yours.

We are taught in the scriptures not to cast seeds (Gospel knowledge) indiscriminately. Some will land on infertile ground, some will be overcome by weeds but some will grow strong in good ground. This will not be your only opportunity to hear the Gospel. Our Father in Heaven desperately wants to welcome you with open arms and wants all His children to return safely to Him. I am grateful that although you feel as you do now, you at least allowed some discussion.

[T00ts]

Whoops wrong quote.

[Barry]

Dismiss whatever you like.
You've heard the gospel on this forum from at least two of us and rejected it. I can't do anything more for you.

[Nalaar]

It's not a case of rebuffing others. It is the recognition that Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the light. He was prophesied as far back as you care to look as the only Saviour of the world and the whole point of life on earth is our choice of following Him or not. It is quite clear cut in the Scriptures.

I don't, but the Word of God does.
Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father except through Me".

Both these responses are tautological, in that they require someone to accept your beliefs about Jesus in order for those beliefs to be justified.

Consider - I know a Buddhist who claim that when they became Buddhist they saw a light that they have no previously seen, and when I press them on the issue they respond with very similar statements to the ones you both have made here 'I need to study Buddhist texts more' 'I need to accept that this is a personal connection that you can not understand unless you experience it' etc.

I assume (like me) you both don't believe the claims of the Buddhist, please recognize that the same reasoning that you are using to dismiss his claims is the reasoning I'm using to dismiss yours.

[Barry]

In what way do you rebuff people of other religions who use the same logic to support/propagate their own beliefs?

I don't, but the Word of God does.
Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father except through Me".

[T00ts]

Okay, so based on that I think it follows that being non-Christian is, as T00ts put it, a 'truly unforgivable evil'.


In what way do you rebuff people of other religions who use the same logic to support/propagate their own beliefs?

It's not a case of rebuffing others. It is the recognition that Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the light. He was prophesied as far back as you care to look as the only Saviour of the world and the whole point of life on earth is our choice of following Him or not. It is quite clear cut in the Scriptures.

[Nalaar]

You definitely get that.

Okay, so based on that I think it follows that being non-Christian is, as T00ts put it, a 'truly unforgivable evil'.

It's deeper than that.
It's not about what other people or Christians explain to you. It is between you and God, when you become a Christian, genuinely, you receive the Holy Spirit, who guides us.

In what way do you rebuff people of other religions who use the same logic to support/propagate their own beliefs?

[T00ts]

For anyone who may have seen this post before I deleted it I apologise. It was not appropriate.

[Barry]

"Denial of the holy ghost" sounds a lot like being a non-Christian. Presumably someone can not be a Christian and deny the holy ghost etc.

You definitely get that.

An appeal to tautological reasoning ('You can only judge what I know, by knowing what I know, which involves accepting what I know') is unsatisfactory.

It's deeper than that.
It's not about what other people or Christians explain to you. It is between you and God, when you become a Christian, genuinely, you receive the Holy Spirit, who guides us.

[Nalaar]

God forgives but only on repentance of the sinner. So I guess if someone doesn't repent ... I believe that there are sins that He will not forgive. Murder and denial of the Holy Ghost would be two. We are told that Jesus stands for us with God so presumably would be our advocate and will plead any mitigation. But God is just and whatever judgements He might make I am pretty certain that by then we will be content.

"Denial of the holy ghost" sounds a lot like being a non-Christian. Presumably someone can not be a Christian and deny the holy ghost etc.

I read this back and can sense the unbeliever's mockery. It sounds just too pat and too accommodating as if whatever we wish so it will be. A true Utopia. To a degree I think that is so because by then our focus will be not on our earthly existence which in eternal terms is a blink of an eye, but on the future and our places in that. It is indeed a very simple plan. As I look at the whole question of eternity and God's plan for all of us I realise that without the experience of the stomach churning recognition of what the Gospel really is, it is difficult to convey its significance to us all.

You are a reader and you question, are you prepared to look further? I can only suggest that you start at the old Testament and read the whole Bible carefully asking for guidance and the truth. I guarantee an answer but only if you ask with a genuine need to know. Only then can you truly make a judgement. Don't take my word for it, neither question belief in Jesus Christ and the Gospel until you know for yourself. Only personal revelation will be enough to convince anyone.

Any mockery you sense is in your own reading of my posts.

I have spent more than enough time on the Abrahamic books, and found them wanting.
An appeal to tautological reasoning ('You can only judge what I know, by knowing what I know, which involves accepting what I know') is unsatisfactory.

[Borchester]

Well tbh T00ts I despair sometimes,I see people who believe in the same god as you and they do things sure in their minds they are acting righteously according to their branch and its particular beliefs.

I was watching the tv last week a young muslim woman treated and killed in the most disguting way,couldn't watch it all basically tortured and murdered by her own father and other family members,analy raped by her uncle in an honour killing,bloody awful interpretation of the word honour.

So that's what worries me,the treatment to a greater or lesser degree of those who don't fit in to a particular religion.

God is alright. It is just that He has been around for a long time so tends to get tetchy over not very much and is probably a bit senile.

[T00ts]

Okay, given that's not what you mean by 'truly unforgivable evil', what do you mean?

God forgives but only on repentance of the sinner. So I guess if someone doesn't repent ... I believe that there are sins that He will not forgive. Murder and denial of the Holy Ghost would be two. We are told that Jesus stands for us with God so presumably would be our advocate and will plead any mitigation. But God is just and whatever judgements He might make I am pretty certain that by then we will be content.

I read this back and can sense the unbeliever's mockery. It sounds just too pat and too accommodating as if whatever we wish so it will be. A true Utopia. To a degree I think that is so because by then our focus will be not on our earthly existence which in eternal terms is a blink of an eye, but on the future and our places in that. It is indeed a very simple plan. As I look at the whole question of eternity and God's plan for all of us I realise that without the experience of the stomach churning recognition of what the Gospel really is, it is difficult to convey its significance to us all.

You are a reader and you question, are you prepared to look further? I can only suggest that you start at the old Testament and read the whole Bible carefully asking for guidance and the truth. I guarantee an answer but only if you ask with a genuine need to know. Only then can you truly make a judgement. Don't take my word for it, neither question belief in Jesus Christ and the Gospel until you know for yourself. Only personal revelation will be enough to convince anyone.

[Nalaar]

Why would it be non-Christian?

Okay, given that's not what you mean by 'truly unforgivable evil', what do you mean?