Straw poll, does BJ have something to hide?

[Barry]

No, I prefer the common sense view as also held by sampanviking.

[Ciaphas]

Except that your open democracy investigation didn't really investigate much. It just went to open sources which have been declared by the Tory party. All legal and above board.



Has it investigated the funding of the Labour party, the Lib Dems? Just for fairness sake?

Labour and the Lib Dems are not witholding a report on Russian interference in the UK, the Conservatives are.



This thread is about Mr Johnson's motivations for seeking to delay the release of the report until after the general election.



Surely you can see why the relationship between the Conservative party and various Russian individuals/organisations is relevent to this question?

[Sampanviking]

Money from Russians domiciled in the UK is highly unlikely to be Kremlin money.

Many of these Oligarchs are opponents of Putin and if anything their money is to keep the hostile attitude towards Russia the official UK policy.

[Barry]

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/revealed-russian-donors-have-stepped-tory-funding/">https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-m ... y-funding/">https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/revealed-russian-donors-have-stepped-tory-funding/



Russian money pouring into the Conservative party. No wonder Mr Johnson doesn't want this report released.

Except that your open democracy investigation didn't really investigate much. It just went to open sources which have been declared by the Tory party. All legal and above board.



Has it investigated the funding of the Labour party, the Lib Dems? Just for fairness sake?

[Ciaphas]

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/revealed-russian-donors-have-stepped-tory-funding/">https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-m ... y-funding/">https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/revealed-russian-donors-have-stepped-tory-funding/



Russian money pouring into the Conservative party. No wonder Mr Johnson doesn't want this report released.

[Barry]

All will be revealed in the fullness of time. Until then I expect you to obfuscate rather than tell me how the Russians have influenced us at the ballot boxes.

If it is about funding, there have been enough enquiries, including the one that smeared a young Conservative, and he has been exonerated.

You don't think there is something iffy about the timing of this one? Unless something illegal has happened, no one cares. The referendum was non-binding, remember?

[BeElBeeBub]

In that case you are saying you were influenced by the Russians. I wasn't.

So perhaps you can say how you were influenced by the Russians, yet continued to vote remain?

No, I am not saying that.



I'm saying that the Russians probably meddled in the ref (and 2017).  



It probably wasn't as straight forward as simply favouring one side. Division was the goal, a leave victory a nice to have.



Neither of us can categorically rule out that they were influenced by some aspect of it - only a fool would say "I can't be fooled".



Don't you even find it a tiny bit curious that No10 would rather take the flak for not releasing this report than have in the public domain?



Don't you want to know what that meddling is?  Aren't you curious what occured and if you were influenced?



I sure as hell do.  If I've been played by some sort of Russian disinfo campaign I'd rather know than sail on in blissful ignorance.

[Barry]

Neither you or I can say we weren't can we?



It is plausible that they were involved (given they were involved in the US) and the Russians have not shown any restraint about operating in the UK (eg Skripal case).



It's plausible (probable even) they were involved on both sides as their aim is not necessarily to get a given result but to create a divisive atmosphere.



Neither you or I can say for certain this didn't happen to us.



Maybe if someone were to conduct an investigation, maybe with input from the security services and produce a report on if there was any interference and if there was, what "direction" it was in it would help us understand.....🤔



Who would not want such a report published?......

In that case you are saying you were influenced by the Russians. I wasn't.

So perhaps you can say how you were influenced by the Russians, yet continued to vote remain?

[BeElBeeBub]

Probably, but not as much as most.



The largest circulation paper in the UK is the London Evening Standard, closely followed by the various Metro clones. All of them are owned by Russians, all supported Remain  and they all invariably had an article accusing Boris of using the wrong brand of toothpaste. So if BoJo is a Russian agent the Kremlin did a piss poor job of running him.



The 2016 referendum seems to be entering Remain mythology whereby saintly remainers tried to debate the issues with neanderthal Brexiters who were lead astray by the racist lies of the ERG. My feeling is that there was a sh!t storm of badly thought out propaganda from both sides which was largely ignored by the electorate who just followed their gut instincts which is why the Brexiters won.

If it's all a load of hot air, then why is No10 sitting on it?



Is their thinking "I know we could release this this report exonerating us before the election, but let's sit on it to make ourselves look shady and then have to spend time and energy combating the perception"



Regarding the newspaper issue, yes it's entirely possible that Russians were intervening on the side of Remain as well.



Even if the country had voted remain they would have won by creating a divide where there hadn't been



We know they ran pro Bernie campaigns in the US.  It is entirely consistent with their goal of increasing division.



They also find anti- Vax movements, gun control/freedom movements and various race based campaigns in the US.

[Borchester]

Probably, but not as much as most.



The largest circulation paper in the UK is the London Evening Standard, closely followed by the various Metro clones. All of them are owned by Russians, all supported Remain  and they all invariably had an article accusing Boris of using the wrong brand of toothpaste. So if BoJo is a Russian agent the Kremlin did a piss poor job of running him.



The 2016 referendum seems to be entering Remain mythology whereby saintly remainers tried to debate the issues with neanderthal Brexiters who were lead astray by the racist lies of the ERG. My feeling is that there was a sh!t storm of badly thought out propaganda from both sides which was largely ignored by the electorate who just followed their gut instincts which is why the Brexiters won.

[Sampanviking]

The evidence is overwhelming....

Boris is a well known Russian name and Mr Johnson has more than a passing similarity to another Boris - Boris Yeltsin, in terms of his character and antics.



I see this as utterly convincing evidence that Boris Johnson is a Russian Agent, that has infiltrated the inner sanctum of the British Establishment.

god help us all and global civilisation!



There is no doubt that Mr Putin is responsible for every political election and referendum result that contradicts neoliberal principals.

Oh I wish I was of stronger moral fiber and higher intelligence, so I was not sucked in by Mr Putin's deceptions at every turn!

[BeElBeeBub]

Were you influenced by the Russians, BeElBeeBub? Nothing about whataboutery. Were you influenced by the Russians, BeElBeeBub?

Neither you or I can say we weren't can we?



It is plausible that they were involved (given they were involved in the US) and the Russians have not shown any restraint about operating in the UK (eg Skripal case).



It's plausible (probable even) they were involved on both sides as their aim is not necessarily to get a given result but to create a divisive atmosphere.



Neither you or I can say for certain this didn't happen to us.



Maybe if someone were to conduct an investigation, maybe with input from the security services and produce a report on if there was any interference and if there was, what "direction" it was in it would help us understand.....🤔



Who would not want such a report published?......

[Javert]

It's ok everyone.  The mystery has been solved.



Michael Gove was asked on R4 this morning why the government is refusing to release the report.



His answer was "Jeremy Corbyn is a terrorist".



So that's cleared that one up then.  Nothing to see here.

[Barry]

Were you influenced by the Russians, BeElBeeBub? Nothing about whataboutery. Were you influenced by the Russians, BeElBeeBub?

[BeElBeeBub]

How would I know?



Obviously a typo in there, but this is all speculation. Were you influenced by the Ruskis BEBB, or would it only be thick people who were taken in?

I sense you are trying extremely hard to "look the other way" on this whilst simultaneously engaging in whataboutery.



Is it not sensible to ask where the largest single political donation in UK history came from given there is no obvious source for that money.



The Russians were clearly active in the 2016 US elections, but somehow they didn't bother with the 2016 referendum?