Dyson got largest EU farm subsidy paid to a private landowner in En (£3.7m)

[Cor Blimey!]

That's nice for them.
I'm not into nation building. Good bye

Great argument!

[Baff]

That's nice for them.
I'm not into nation building. Good bye

[Cor Blimey!]

The EU's economic strategy is very simple: they invest in underdeveloped economies so that when those economies grow they are in position to buy goods from the other EU countries. England currently has a massive trade surplus with Ireland. Ireland wouldn't have been in a position to boost the UK economy to the tune of £13 billion annually if it weren't for the money the UK and the rest of the EU invested in it. After Ireland itself, the UK was the primary beneficiary of that invested money. The Eastern European economies will develop with time, then the rest of the EU will see a massive return on its investment too.

[Baff]

No because the rebate is calculated before the uk sends a penny. The 350m or 18.2 was the figure before the rebate was applied.

I'm not counting the other eu funding and grant monies.

Rebate = get money back.
And we only get that money back because the EU allows us to.

EU funding and grants are same.
We send them the money and they choose where it will be spent.

The slogan on the bus does not refer to "net" payments.
It refers to how much is sent and who decides where our tax money is being spent.

You attempting to twist this meaning to suit your own agenda, is an example of "lying".

Now I understand your broader point and agree with it.
Much of that money comes back here.
Much of it however does not.

Much of that vast sum never returns in any shape size or form at all.
And every time you mention our rebate and EU grants we are instantly reminded that this is a losing deal for us.
We are instantly reminded of all the negatives.

We don't suddenly think, oh, the EU wastes loads of our tax money on stuff here that we don't want. Great news!
And we don't suddenly think, oh, the EU spends loads of our tax money on other people. Great news!

Every time you raise the issue of the red bus, you lose.
Because you remind everyone of an ongoing situation which they despise.


Splitting hairs.... doesn't remove the broad picture.
We send a gazillion to the EU to do with as it pleases.
A gazillion we could better use ourselves.

If you change the number from one gazillion to half a gazillion, it makes no difference to it's desirability. None.
The very principle is bad.


So you haven't just been semantically dishonest.
You have been intellectually dishonest.

Tried to obsfuscate from the truth of the issue that this slogan raises.

Instead of directly addressing the issue.
Promising to end net payments for example, you simply called everyone fools and liars.
And the reason for this is simple. By dehumanising us you feel able to ignore our concerns and continue this abusive relationship from which you profit.
But it ain't happening. And we know better than to expect any apology from you.




Southern Ireland is a net contributer, now.
And the reason this has just changed is because the UK has just left. Leaving a hole in your budget that other people are having to make up.

Now it is your turn to be on the shit end of the stick. Please enjoy a taste of your own medecine.

[GerryT]

It's actually higher than that now.

This year the UK sends £20 billion to the EU, not 18.2
Last year it was £18.9 billion
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7886/

I expect your apology won't be forthcoming any time soon.
Let us see what kind of a man you are.

Now I appreciate that this number could be spun a variety of ways depending on what narrative you are attempting to make. I also accept that it is not the same number I myself would have used to make the same point.
But it is factually correct.
And it speaks truthfully about the nature of our relationship that people wished to change.
That it is highly expensive and that we pay in more than we take out.

And if you can't face the facts, there is only one reason for this.
Because you recognise that it represnts a perceived injustice truthfully recognised by the majority of people in this country.

And you have no answer to this.
It's not like in Southern Ireland where you could have responded to this by saying the EU sends back more to us than we send to them.

The fact is we were unwillingly subsiding you and you are FFing pissed off with us that we have decided to stop.

Seriously you need to look at the links you put up. 2019 was the last yr as a member and the uk sent 14.2b not 18.9. Your leaving out the rebate which is deducted before anything is sent.

The 18.2 is what was on the bus again the figure before a rebate, again a lie.

Ireland is a net contributor

You keep talking about what you pay in, but you get money back, your net contribution is about 8b, after all the back and forth. And dont give me any if your crap about not having control of the on average 4.5b in repayments to your govt, your govt does select the projects that this money goes toward. Roads, infrastructure etc.. if the eu didn't pay the uk would have to anyway, its not like the uk is wasting this money on things like water canons for London or other such follies

[Cor Blimey!]

There might be something in this: https://www.onlineprivacyfoundation.org/opf-research/psychological-biases/psychology-and-the-eu-referendum-update/

[GerryT]

The UK has 18.2 billion it can not spend as it wants. Do you accept that?

No because the rebate is calculated before the uk sends a penny. The 350m or 18.2 was the figure before the rebate was applied.

I'm not counting the other eu funding and grant monies.

[Cor Blimey!]

Not if we sign up to the EU's "level playing field" we won't.

That's the spirit!

[Baff]

Also Nissan and Toyota want Britain to pay the tariffs on their produce in the event of a no-deal Brexit. You could use some of your 'savings' on that.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/10/05/nissan-toyota-want-britain-pay-no-deal-brexit-tariffs/

Not if we sign up to the EU's "level playing field" we won't.

[Baff]

It would certainly be wise for the UK to keep plenty of hard currency ready to hand -  it's going to to be cash up front now that you've shown that your word is worthless.

In which case  the EU is going to need to come up with something we actually want to pay for.
Which would make a refreshing change.

We've been cash up front all along.
But we've yet to get what we paid for.

Hence we will now stop paying.

28 years of being ripped off by liars, and "our" word is worthless?



Their word is less than worthless. It costs billions to be lied to by them.

[Cor Blimey!]

Also Nissan and Toyota want Britain to pay the tariffs on their produce in the event of a no-deal Brexit. You could use some of your 'savings' on that.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/10/05/nissan-toyota-want-britain-pay-no-deal-brexit-tariffs/

[Cor Blimey!]

The UK has 18.2 billion it can not spend as it wants. Do you accept that?

It would certainly be wise for the UK to keep plenty of hard currency ready to hand -  it's going to to be cash up front now that you've shown that your word is worthless.

[Nick]

Its not an argument, more a case of denial. 350m a week is a lie, once accepted we can jump off the roundabout and move on.

The UK has an EU bill of 18.2 billion it can not spend as it wants. Do you accept that?

[Baff]

Baff the bus said the uk sends 350b a week or 18.2b. Now will you go off and come back with proof that the UK sent that amount of money in any year to the EU and I'll apologise to you and everyone else for lying.

But until then Johnson, the convicted liar will remain just that, a liar. Who would you believe..
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/sep/24/uk-supreme-court-ruling-key-issues-behind-judges-decision-boris-johnson-suspension-parliament

It's actually higher than that now.

This year the UK sends £20 billion to the EU, not 18.2
Last year it was £18.9 billion
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7886/

I expect your apology won't be forthcoming any time soon.
Let us see what kind of a man you are.

Now I appreciate that this number could be spun a variety of ways depending on what narrative you are attempting to make. I also accept that it is not the same number I myself would have used to make the same point.
But it is factually correct.
And it speaks truthfully about the nature of our relationship that people wished to change.
That it is highly expensive and that we pay in more than we take out.

And if you can't face the facts, there is only one reason for this.
Because you recognise that it represnts a perceived injustice truthfully recognised by the majority of people in this country.

And you have no answer to this.
It's not like in Southern Ireland where you could have responded to this by saying the EU sends back more to us than we send to them.

The fact is we were unwillingly subsiding you and you are FFing pissed off with us that we have decided to stop.

[papasmurf]

Its not an argument, more a case of denial. 350m a week is a lie, once accepted we can jump off the roundabout and move on.

It was proven to be a lie about 10 minutes after the bus first appeared  on national TV news.