Example of why Tories are anti-capitalist - mobile phone charges

[Baron von Lotsov]

In China you buy a top up card for 100RMB for example and you put the code in and they take 80RMB for the connection fees. You then have to buy another 100RMB card and stick that in as 20RMB doesn't get you anywhere. Yet another China expert hey Baron?

I'm just repeating what I was told from a Chinese woman. Are you Chinese? They do it through Wechat.



Besides it is not that relevant to the point I'm making. Two wrongs do not make a right anyway.

[Nick]

Now you are inventing stuff. Neither I nor my parents have phoned premium rate numbers.



How the mobile phone industry has gone is very similar to a telecoms company in South America. It was once national and then privatised (like BT was once national). The person who bought it had a virtual monopoly from the word go, but was worried that it would look like a monopoly, hence he created hundreds of subsidies who would sell phone services, but only one firm owned the network. I'm told we have four, but the point is that this guy was the richest man in the world, and may well still be. You would have called it healthy competition because you would have thought there were a lot of competition in the market as all the other stupid customers believed. You go by the wisdom of the crowd and snub my more sophisticated analysis.



The point being, just because you can't understand it, does not mean it does not exist. You are like the little boy who as long as he thinks there isn't any danger he is OK, so he shuts his eyes so he can't see it. I know for a fact a free market never has prices for the same product vary over a factor of 100 or more. It's extreme.

China, South America. Have you ever travelled to these places you speak of?

[Nick]

The other option is a contract lock-in. These things are well known amongst anti-capitalists. In China their system charges you the same for each unit, no matter what other crap is going on. This applies to telephones, internet, buses, trains. You pay per mile or per minute with comms, or perhaps per MB download if it is the internet, but it is a undistorted market.



This is a concept I'm trying to get you to understand so you know why capitalism works. The rules are, the customer knows the cost before using it and is not discriminated against. You are buying a rental of a connection to another phone per unit of time, and this is what the operator has to pay for, i.e. the equipment to make that work. It's a liner thing. You should have done A level maths & physics you know. The other factor of making these contract so damn complex is it hides the price you pay. My parents had a right shock at the end of the call. Perhaps if when you dial the number it specifies the max charge per minute before pressing connect then that would help a great deal, like forcing shops to put prices on goods. It needs legislation in some instances. They have cleaned up the internet download "upto" scam recently, but not touched these crooks. Tories do not understand free market economics. They are bribed idiots.

In China you buy a top up card for 100RMB for example and you put the code in and they take 80RMB for the connection fees. You then have to buy another 100RMB card and stick that in as 20RMB doesn't get you anywhere. Yet another China expert hey Baron?

[Nick]

Regulation of the market is their current responsibility. The buck stops with the ones who control the regulators.



Lets point out another scam. I give them £10 before I can use the service, like pay up front, as it is in takeaways rather than restaurants. However, it is like going into a take away and wanting a portion of chips for £2 but the shop will not sell you them unless you pay £10 up front in credit. Now you have your chips and £8 of credit. However you agree also that if you do not buy any more food from them for 6 months they can steal your credit, and so you would have been forced to either pay £10 for a portion of chips or to agree to by form them at a minimum of every 6 months. As you know, chippies do not ever do such a thing, and this is the basis of capitalism as a concept. Only thieves do it, because they can operate with impunity. They set it up so every chippie has the same offer, and this is known as a cartel. It is one of the main things that drove Adam Smith to write a An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations. His gripe though was meat suppliers and their cosy meat suppliers' club.

Trains, swimming baths, Aeroplanes, cinema, McDonald's, Hotels, Funerals, Prostitutes 😂, beer.



Need I go on with a list of things you pay upfront for?  PAYG mobile phones are there to guard against unscrupulous people that under other circumstances would not pay their bills. It's no different than an electricity or gas meter in someone's home, they go to a shop and have to top it up.



You have a choice, get a contract or don't have a phone, no one is forcing you to conform to the rules and have a phone.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Your arrogance knows no bounds. I have clearly shown that their is no anti-capitalism in the mobile phone industry, but healthy competition which benefits the users. If you can't take advantage of that it's your lookout. If you've been scammed by a premium rate number, also your lookout.

I'll leave you with this thread so you can play with yourself.

Now you are inventing stuff. Neither I nor my parents have phoned premium rate numbers.



How the mobile phone industry has gone is very similar to a telecoms company in South America. It was once national and then privatised (like BT was once national). The person who bought it had a virtual monopoly from the word go, but was worried that it would look like a monopoly, hence he created hundreds of subsidies who would sell phone services, but only one firm owned the network. I'm told we have four, but the point is that this guy was the richest man in the world, and may well still be. You would have called it healthy competition because you would have thought there were a lot of competition in the market as all the other stupid customers believed. You go by the wisdom of the crowd and snub my more sophisticated analysis.



The point being, just because you can't understand it, does not mean it does not exist. You are like the little boy who as long as he thinks there isn't any danger he is OK, so he shuts his eyes so he can't see it. I know for a fact a free market never has prices for the same product vary over a factor of 100 or more. It's extreme.

[Barry]

The other option is a contract lock-in. These things are well known amongst anti-capitalists. In China their system charges you the same for each unit, no matter what other crap is going on. This applies to telephones, internet, buses, trains. You pay per mile or per minute with comms, or perhaps per MB download if it is the internet, but it is a undistorted market.



This is a concept I'm trying to get you to understand so you know why capitalism works. The rules are, the customer knows the cost before using it and is not discriminated against. You are buying a rental of a connection to another phone per unit of time, and this is what the operator has to pay for, i.e. the equipment to make that work. It's a liner thing. You should have done A level maths & physics you know. The other factor of making these contract so damn complex is it hides the price you pay. My parents had a right shock at the end of the call. Perhaps if when you dial the number it specifies the max charge per minute before pressing connect then that would help a great deal, like forcing shops to put prices on goods. It needs legislation in some instances. They have cleaned up the internet download "upto" scam recently, but not touched these crooks. Tories do not understand free market economics. They are bribed idiots.

Your arrogance knows no bounds. I have clearly shown that their is no anti-capitalism in the mobile phone industry, but healthy competition which benefits the users. If you can't take advantage of that it's your lookout. If you've been scammed by a premium rate number, also your lookout.

I'll leave you with this thread so you can play with yourself.

[Churchill]

You can switch to different phone providers almost at will these days as it is a very competitive world, good and cheaper deals can be had all you have to do is shop around and think before you sign up



As per usual it all comes down to buyer beware if you make a bad decision down to you to resolve it , it is the phone companies that set the tariffs and offers not the Tories or Poloticians.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Baron, Google "sim only deals" and take your pick. It's not extortion unless you think it is.

The other option is a contract lock-in. These things are well known amongst anti-capitalists. In China their system charges you the same for each unit, no matter what other crap is going on. This applies to telephones, internet, buses, trains. You pay per mile or per minute with comms, or perhaps per MB download if it is the internet, but it is a undistorted market.



This is a concept I'm trying to get you to understand so you know why capitalism works. The rules are, the customer knows the cost before using it and is not discriminated against. You are buying a rental of a connection to another phone per unit of time, and this is what the operator has to pay for, i.e. the equipment to make that work. It's a liner thing. You should have done A level maths & physics you know. The other factor of making these contract so damn complex is it hides the price you pay. My parents had a right shock at the end of the call. Perhaps if when you dial the number it specifies the max charge per minute before pressing connect then that would help a great deal, like forcing shops to put prices on goods. It needs legislation in some instances. They have cleaned up the internet download "upto" scam recently, but not touched these crooks. Tories do not understand free market economics. They are bribed idiots.

[Barry]

Baron, Google "sim only deals" and take your pick. It's not extortion unless you think it is.

[Baron von Lotsov]

I lost interest as soon I got as far as takeaway after that I gave up

It's an example of a market which is at the competitive end of the spectrum. Mobile phone companies are positioned at the other end. You have been conditioned to accept their extortion but you would not in a competitive market.

[Churchill]

I lost interest as soon I got as far as takeaway after that I gave up

[Baron von Lotsov]

Exactly just what has it got to do with the Tories or any other Party

Regulation of the market is their current responsibility. The buck stops with the ones who control the regulators.



Lets point out another scam. I give them £10 before I can use the service, like pay up front, as it is in takeaways rather than restaurants. However, it is like going into a take away and wanting a portion of chips for £2 but the shop will not sell you them unless you pay £10 up front in credit. Now you have your chips and £8 of credit. However you agree also that if you do not buy any more food from them for 6 months they can steal your credit, and so you would have been forced to either pay £10 for a portion of chips or to agree to by form them at a minimum of every 6 months. As you know, chippies do not ever do such a thing, and this is the basis of capitalism as a concept. Only thieves do it, because they can operate with impunity. They set it up so every chippie has the same offer, and this is known as a cartel. It is one of the main things that drove Adam Smith to write a An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations. His gripe though was meat suppliers and their cosy meat suppliers' club.

[Barry]

It seems to me that what has been unearthed here is competition in the market with customers having the choices of PAYG, Contract, buying their phone as an open phone, buying their phone as part of a contract. Anyone paying a £1 a minute probably didn't know what they had signed up for.

The mobile phone business is a buyer's market. Just look around, there's so much healthy competition.

[Churchill]

Exactly just what has it got to do with the Tories or any other Party

[Nick]

National



Besides it is futile to claim it is a one-off. I was ripped a fiver for about five minutes. That will be the last though. I've worked out a work-around. I do not pay thieves as a matter of principle.

Strange that you avoid the question by just saying national. You don't say whether it's a pay as you go or contract.



I pay zero for calls anywhere in 57 countries as I'm on a contract.



I also fail to see how your family not having a good phone contract has anything to do with the Tories!