Lords reject freedom of movement bill

[Baff]

From a global perspective. No one cares.
You are all just called "English".

England. Britain. The UK.
Outside fo the UK, these words all mean the exact same thing to the people using them.


Like how "Yank" means an American.
But to an American it means an American from the northern states.


I CBA with the over sensetivities on display if I am quite honest.
Poor dears.

[patman post]

if its one country how come its team GB at the Olympics, and then you have separate soccer and rugby teams for all 4 countries. In fact as a country the uk doesn't have a soccer or rugby team, weird wouldn't you say, no country team for your national sport.

It's a question of terminology — and admittedly confusing. There are Home Nations contests in UK sport. And some international sporting bodies accept each of the four nations competing in their own right — in international cricket, there's the all-Ireland team, and England is actually England and Wales.
The IOC doesn't regard the four nations of the UK as independent countries, but it does have the Ireland team with contestants from north an south, so the remainder compete as GB.
This is not unique: West Indies play as an international cricket team, but the countries compete individually in the Olympics.
I've probably got some of that wrong, but that's more or less part of the picture...

[GerryT]

For most purposes the UK is a Country currently made up of four Nations.
Govt, Sporting bodies, Officialdom, etc, all seem to agree — googling <<The Four Nations>>, should ram the point home...

if its one country how come its team GB at the Olympics, and then you have separate soccer and rugby teams for all 4 countries. In fact as a country the uk doesn't have a soccer or rugby team, weird wouldn't you say, no country team for your national sport.

[patman post]

For most purposes the UK is a Country currently made up of four Nations.
Govt, Sporting bodies, Officialdom, etc, all seem to agree — googling <<The Four Nations>>, should ram the point home...

[papasmurf]

The United Kingdom is a country.

It is at least four countries and they are not united.

[Baff]

The United Kingdom is a country.

[Thomas]

Not really Thomas . Im trying to put the reality of the situation on the page not my personal view . .

The reality of the situation is the days of the old unitary state is long gone  , and you are merely , like your government  , trying to ignore the reality of devolution which the scottish people overwhelmingly endorsed by referendum by a far larger margin than your own  country did regarding brexit.

Foreign affairs are not a devolved matter so neither is our EU membership and has no argument or connection with devolved issues .

Thats a cop out streetwalker , as no one has said they are. However the internal market bill effectively hands power to politicians in your country over devolved policy area.

This isnt what the scottish people voted for , and why the scottish parliament as well as the other two devolved adminisntrations have rejectd it.

This utter hypocrisy by you brexiters is unbelievable  , if the eu had tried something of this sort then you would have been up in arms demanding power remains at your parliament rather than brussells.

Its democracy for the United Kingdom not democracy for parts of it

The united kingdom isnt a country. The clue is in the name  , its the united kingdom made up of two countries a prinicpality and a province , not "the single nation".

Its nothing more than english imperialism and centralisation yet again which we rejected in a free and fair vote. Thats not democracy is it?

The tories cant win elections in scotland , so you try and devise underhand policies from the comfort of your own parliament because you cant do it in a free and fair vote.?

If you want Democracy for Scotland  then you have to leave the UK and thats up to nobody  but yourselves

Your government tells us we cant have a free and fair vote on leaving the uk , so what are you talking about?

The nasty eu that you have moaned about didnt stop you having a vote to leave their union did they?

Again we see which union is the more democratic , and it isnt your "british " prison.

UK internal market plan would be devolution 'power grab'

Scottish Government's constitution secretary expresses concerns in letter to Cabinet Office Minister Michael Gove.

Discussing the letter, Russell said: "The Tories know they can't win an election to the Scottish Parliament so have come up with a scheme to undermine it instead.

"They are plotting, in an underhand manner, to introduce a new law which would effectively hand power to Tory ministers in devolved policy areas, under the guise of protecting what they call the so-called UK internal market after Brexit.

https://news.stv.tv/politics/uk-internal-market-plan-would-be-devolution-power-grab?top

UK internal market bill a 'full frontal assault on devolution', Nicola Sturgeon says

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,uk-internal-market-bill-a-full-frontal-assault-on-devolution-nicola-sturgeon-says

[Streetwalker]

No.

As a united kingdom with DEVOLUTION is where we are at ,and where we have been for the last two decades.

In case it escaped your notice streetwalker , in 1997 , we had a referendum in scotland for devolution and 74.29% voted for a scottish parliament with devolved powers.

On top of that , in case it again escaped your notice , in 2014 , we had another referendum in scotland on independence , and your government and main political parties not only told us to vote to stay in the uk to stay in the eu , but offered us more , not less devolved powers if we did vote to stay.

So not only are you ignoring the 62 % of the scottish people who voted to stay in the eu  , but now you are using brexit to renege on promises made during 2014 , and overturn the settled will of the scottish people for the last two decades regarding devolution and how it works .

So where does the mandate to do this come from?

The only three minor parties im aware of who were against devolution and constantly stood on platforms at election time wanting to end the scottish parliament were the BNP , UKIP , and Brexit party , and between them , they couldnt fill a thimble with political support in scotland.

On top of that while the  conservative party was originally against devolution , even they have never to my mind stood on a paltform of rescinding the scottish parliament at any election recently  , knowing full well the massive support our parliament has and devolution among the scottish electorate ,with barely 6 % on average of the scottish popualtion over the last twenty years wanting rid of holyrood.

Even if the tories had stood such a platform , they havent won an election in scotland since the days of the old scottish tory party 70 years ago , and last december , 75% of the scottish public voted against the tories and they receieved a political kicking .

Your hypocrisy is unbelievable. You moan about foreigners in europe having a say in your country without much to any political representation , but then turn that argument hypocritically on its head and demand a say on the settled will of the scottish people and how my country works?

UKIP stood for the best part of the last twenty years to get rid of devolution , and got their arses kicked time and again.

It once again though flags up another english hypocrisy streetwalker........reagrding the mythical english subsidy.

Here we see yet again that not only does little england need scotland for its delusions of grandeur on the world stage , but you need our goods  , mineral wealth  , territorial waters and all the rest to sell to the world as little england doesnt have much to offer the world markets.

The hypocrisy of the english brexiter flagged up yet again.

Not really Thomas . Im trying to put the reality of the situation on the page not my personal view . Foreign affairs are not a devolved matter so neither is our EU membership and has no argument or connection with devolved issues .

I think more and more are beginning to see which is the more democratic union scotland is currently part of , and it isnt your british union.

More like a british prison , where scotland has just served a 300 year sentence in one of the most undemocratic unions on this planet.

Its democracy for the United Kingdom not democracy for parts of it . If you want Democracy for Scotland  then you have to leave the UK and thats up to nobody  but yourselves . But you already know that .

[Sheepy]

since 1999 , for every £1 scotland has raised , it has been given back 55p from westminster the "english parliament" for us to spend on ourselves.

We must be the only country in the world according to anglo economists who create a deficit by spending almost half less than what we raise.

...but then we know the british economists are skilled at this sort of slight of hand as they have had centuries of practice , remember india? Told for 180 years by "britain" it was running a deficit while they extracted £ 45 trillion from the country .

As for english only projects like the london crossrail project , scotland is paying at last estimate £1.4 billion of the estimated £17.6 billion cost , and since 2012 , we have paid £16.5 billion of westmisnters debt interest , which is remarkable when you consider that scotland has literally no borrowing powers.

The uk purse without a doubt , not to mention as streetwalker alluded to , england needs our goods  to sell on the world markets. Per head of population we export more than twice what england does.

There is an amusing side to that Robroy, by the majority into the internal UK market.

[Thomas]

Scotland, the purse of the UK is being treated.

since 1999 , for every £1 scotland has raised , it has been given back 55p from westminster the "english parliament" for us to spend on ourselves.

We must be the only country in the world according to anglo economists who create a deficit by spending almost half less than what we raise.

...but then we know the british economists are skilled at this sort of slight of hand as they have had centuries of practice , remember india? Told for 180 years by "britain" it was running a deficit while they extracted £ 45 trillion from the country .

As for english only projects like the london crossrail project , scotland is paying at last estimate £1.4 billion of the estimated £17.6 billion cost , and since 2012 , we have paid £16.5 billion of westmisnters debt interest , which is remarkable when you consider that scotland has literally no borrowing powers.

The uk purse without a doubt , not to mention as streetwalker alluded to , england needs our goods  to sell on the world markets. Per head of population we export more than twice what england does.

[Thomas]

I think more and more are beginning to see which is the more democratic union scotland is currently part of , and it isnt your british union.

More like a british prison , where scotland has just served a 300 year sentence in one of the most undemocratic unions on this planet.

[Thomas]

As a United Kingdom thats were we are at .

No.

As a united kingdom with DEVOLUTION is where we are at ,and where we have been for the last two decades.

In case it escaped your notice streetwalker , in 1997 , we had a referendum in scotland for devolution and 74.29% voted for a scottish parliament with devolved powers.

On top of that , in case it again escaped your notice , in 2014 , we had another referendum in scotland on independence , and your government and main political parties not only told us to vote to stay in the uk to stay in the eu , but offered us more , not less devolved powers if we did vote to stay.

So not only are you ignoring the 62 % of the scottish people who voted to stay in the eu  , but now you are using brexit to renege on promises made during 2014 , and overturn the settled will of the scottish people for the last two decades regarding devolution and how it works .

So where does the mandate to do this come from?

The only three minor parties im aware of who were against devolution and constantly stood on platforms at election time wanting to end the scottish parliament were the BNP , UKIP , and Brexit party , and between them , they couldnt fill a thimble with political support in scotland.

On top of that while the  conservative party was originally against devolution , even they have never to my mind stood on a paltform of rescinding the scottish parliament at any election recently  , knowing full well the massive support our parliament has and devolution among the scottish electorate ,with barely 6 % on average of the scottish popualtion over the last twenty years wanting rid of holyrood.

Even if the tories had stood such a platform , they havent won an election in scotland since the days of the old scottish tory party 70 years ago , and last december , 75% of the scottish public voted against the tories and they receieved a political kicking .

Your hypocrisy is unbelievable. You moan about foreigners in europe having a say in your country without much to any political representation , but then turn that argument hypocritically on its head and demand a say on the settled will of the scottish people and how my country works?

UKIP stood for the best part of the last twenty years to get rid of devolution , and got their arses kicked time and again.

It once again though flags up another english hypocrisy streetwalker........reagrding the mythical english subsidy.

Here we see yet again that not only does little england need scotland for its delusions of grandeur on the world stage , but you need our goods  , mineral wealth  , territorial waters and all the rest to sell to the world as little england doesnt have much to offer the world markets.

The hypocrisy of the english brexiter flagged up yet again.

[Streetwalker]

The whole reason the internal markets bill is going through your parliament is because without it , westminster can't do trade deals outside the eu for the entire uk because of devolution.

Every major party in scotland except the limp wristed tories have opposed it , and the scot gov have refused legislative consent , so it looks like if westminster gets it passed , its going to the courts.

The uk constitutional crises is only just warming up , and as i have said to you many a time ,while i fully agree democracy should be upheld and england and wales leave the eu , the very idea that the english tories should be striking against devolution and devolved powers that three quarters of the scot electorate voted for is a travesty streetwalker.

Im hoping the courts tear johnson and his party a new arsehole , and im encouraged by the fact lord keen stepped down in large part as to how your government is behaving.
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2020/oct/07/brexit-strategy-puts-uk-on-slippery-slope-to-tyranny-lawyers-told

That some of these powers were also devolved seems to be the problem even though devolution took place within the context of EU membership and devolved matters like food standards were under EU policy frameworks that applied to the whole of the UK
The bill keeps everyone on the same page ,transferring EU competencies' to the UK government  and as you say clears the way for smooth international trade .

As a United Kingdom thats were we are at .

[GerryT]

We all know the WA was a croc of shite , rejected on numerous occasions by Parliament and only eventually voted through after a few tweaks by Johnson and assurances given to the eurosceptics in his own party that that it would be superseded by a Free trade agreement or if need be failing agreement be repudiated .

What you said was:

We all know the WA was a croc of shite , rejected on numerous occasions by Parliament and only eventually voted through after a few tweaks by Johnson and assurances given to the eurosceptics in his own party that that it would be superseded by a Free trade agreement or if need be failing agreement be repudiated .

And you made that up. You said Before the vote to sign the WA that Johnson gave assurances that if passed and a trade deal wasn't agreed that he would repudiate the WA. Johnson never said that, what he said was the agreement was his genius and oven ready.
Or would you like to show the clause in the WA that allows the UK to abandon the WA if a trade deal wasn't agreed.

What actually happened was Johnson took May's WA and he made it far worse in your opinion by keeping NI aligned with the EU while also being part of the UK single market. That was Johnson's input, he put in the border down the Irish Sea, May didn't do that. Totally Johnson.

Johnson was really happy with that as h doesn't give a crap about NI. But because he's stupid he didn't think it through. What he did was give NI a great advantage over the rest of the UK, it will become the magnet for FDI investment as being the only UK area with this privilege. I think it's now dawning on him that Sturgeon will use this as a very big stick to beat Johnson and England into another referendum, where Sturgeon can point to NI and whip up support for how Scotland, the purse of the UK is being treated.

[GerryT]

Boris does not want a deal.

He is currently getting a lot of stick for the Chinese flu nonsense and he wants something to make a grand gesture about something or other. So unless the EU promises to make it rain beer and have Barnier kiss BoJo's bum before the world's press, the blond moppet will give Brussels the Agincourt salute and thereby win back the support of the Tory grassroots which is all he really cares about anyway.

With CV19 the EU and UK need a deal, who cares who gets hurt the worst, in a no deal situation we all loose. But I think your right, Johnson only thinks about himself and what affects him.