Unhappy with democracy

[T00ts]

As far as the UK is concerned, I couldn't really comment on the state of democracy.  I reached the view quite some time ago that the UK is not a democracy.  Therefore stating stuff about being "enemies of democracy" and so on doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I'm sure you need a lot of things to claim to be a democracy, but at least you would need:

1) Universal suffrage
2) A fair and free voting election system.
3) Representation in the government systems which is broadly reflective of the popular vote.
4) A generally well informed electorate.
5) Free speech and a free media but with enough regulation to prevent the proliferation of false information by rich media owners (including social media).
6) A properly regulated system of political and election finance.
7) An independent judiciary free from political influence.
Accountability of government ministers and MPs to the point that they can and will be sacked for negligence and incompetence.
9) At least some level of public service spirit from a good portion of those in government.

The UK just about meets points 1 and 2.  For the rest, far from it.  Therefore in my view the UK is not a functioning democracy.  The closest I could come to with existing vocabulary is that the UK is a universal suffrage plutocracy with highly distorted meritocratic elements.

Oh dear most of that comes across as a bit woke and naive. Utopia doesn't exist.

[Javert]

Cambridge University has completed a survey of 5 million under 35s in several countries and discovered that more are unhappy with Democracy. Now that's a fairly bland statement but I can remember being pretty miffed with [politics in general at that age and feel it's all part of growing up and discovering that life is not a bed of roses.

Cambridge Uni tends to be fairly left wing these days so I just wonder what the aim of this was and how it will really reveal a trend. I just wonder what they would like to replace it with. I guess every generation thinks they have all the answers.  I heard mention some time ago that many would like a more authoritarian government here. Oh well - be careful what you wish for would be my advice. Do you have any advice that might give the next generation a happier life?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8857377/Study-shows-millennials-losing-faith-democracy.html#comments

As far as the UK is concerned, I couldn't really comment on the state of democracy.  I reached the view quite some time ago that the UK is not a democracy.  Therefore stating stuff about being "enemies of democracy" and so on doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I'm sure you need a lot of things to claim to be a democracy, but at least you would need:

1) Universal suffrage
2) A fair and free voting election system.
3) Representation in the government systems which is broadly reflective of the popular vote.
4) A generally well informed electorate.
5) Free speech and a free media but with enough regulation to prevent the proliferation of false information by rich media owners (including social media).
6) A properly regulated system of political and election finance.
7) An independent judiciary free from political influence.
Accountability of government ministers and MPs to the point that they can and will be sacked for negligence and incompetence.
9) At least some level of public service spirit from a good portion of those in government.

The UK just about meets points 1 and 2.  For the rest, far from it.  Therefore in my view the UK is not a functioning democracy.  The closest I could come to with existing vocabulary is that the UK is a universal suffrage plutocracy with highly distorted meritocratic elements.

[Thomas]

The key word is reactionary.
It's noticeable that satisfaction has increased in Germany, South Korea and many of the post-Communist countries of Central and Eastern Europe. Are their leaders and power brokers drastically younger?
These are countries where those in charge have striven to embrace change and make it work. A stark contrast to countries where the baton usually just gets passed to those who won't rock the boat.
Fortunately, early Thatcher managed to get the moribund UK moving, otherwise the country would be in a worse state today than it currently is...

Im not sure its any great revelation satisfaction with democracy has increased in eastern parts of germany and many of the old nations that were once behind the iron curtain 30 years ago. Even though its been three decades , i speak to many polish people and other nationalities that well remember what life was like for them once under what passed as democracy.

Dont know enough about south korea to comment , but i would agree certainly that the USA and the yookay has major problems with their democracy and have commented on it many a time.

[papasmurf]

But it isn't in a bad state.

It is in a terrible state.  (More like a disgraceful state frankly.)

[Barry]

It is Thatcher's legacy why the country is in the bad state it is.

But it isn't in a bad state. It's a rich Western democracy, the left have to move the goalposts and definitions to invent poor people.
Nobody goes hungry. The rich throw a few bits of old pizza and tins of cauliflower at the food bank, so even those who squander their benefits can eat.

[papasmurf]

Fortunately, early Thatcher managed to get the moribund UK moving, otherwise the country would be in a worse state today than it currently is...

It is Thatcher's legacy why the country is in the bad state it is.

[T00ts]

The key word is reactionary.
It's noticeable that satisfaction has increased in Germany, South Korea and many of the post-Communist countries of Central and Eastern Europe. Are their leaders and power brokers drastically younger?
These are countries where those in charge have striven to embrace change and make it work. A stark contrast to countries where the baton usually just gets passed to those who won't rock the boat.
Fortunately, early Thatcher managed to get the moribund UK moving, otherwise the country would be in a worse state today than it currently is...

That was because she was a woman with chutzpah!     I would think that we are currently in a situation of massive change with a government that is dragging large parts of the country kicking and screaming against losing the status quo. Covid is creating a huge reset globally and our leaving the EU will add to that.

[patman post]

The key word is reactionary.
It's noticeable that satisfaction has increased in Germany, South Korea and many of the post-Communist countries of Central and Eastern Europe. Are their leaders and power brokers drastically younger?
These are countries where those in charge have striven to embrace change and make it work. A stark contrast to countries where the baton usually just gets passed to those who won't rock the boat.
Fortunately, early Thatcher managed to get the moribund UK moving, otherwise the country would be in a worse state today than it currently is...

[T00ts]

Hopefully, the days of reactionary Generation X and the Baby Boomers holding the levers of power will soon be over and the world will be able to move on to fairer times under younger management...

Aw bless! I wonder what real difference there will be? Do I spy a touch of ageism?   

[patman post]

Unsurprisingly, Reuters gives a more balanced report of the survey:

LONDON (Reuters) - Young people are less satisfied with democracy and more disillusioned than at any other time in the past century, especially in Europe, North America, Africa and Australia, a study by the University of Cambridge has found.

Millennials, or those born between 1981 and 1996, are more disillusioned than Generation X, those born between 1965 and 1981, or Baby Boomers born between 1944 and 1964 and the Interwar Generation of 1918-1943.

"Across the world, younger generations are not only more dissatisfied with democratic performance than the old, but also more discontented than previous generations at similar life stages," the Cambridge study found.

The picture is bad in the United States, Brazil, Mexico, South Africa, France, Australia and the United Kingdom.

But satisfaction has increased in Germany, South Korea and many of the post-Communist countries of Central and Eastern Europe.

The main reason behind the disillusion with democracy among young people was inequality of wealth and income, the report said, citing figures showing that Millennials make up around a quarter of the U.S. population but hold just 3% of the wealth. Baby Boomers held 21% of the wealth at the same age.

The study suggested that the populist challenge to mainstream, "establishment" politics could actually help improve democratic engagement by shocking moderate parties and leaders into reversing the decay.

The Cambridge Centre for the Future of Democracy delved into data from over 4.8 million respondents collected across 160 countries between 1973 and 2020.

The full report:
https://www.bennettinstitute.cam.ac.uk/publications/global-satisfaction-democracy-report-2020/

Hopefully, the days of reactionary Generation X and the Baby Boomers holding the levers of power will soon be over and the world will be able to move on to fairer times under younger management...

[papasmurf]

I have been unhappy with what passes for democracy in Britain  for the last 61 years.

[T00ts]

Cambridge University has completed a survey of 5 million under 35s in several countries and discovered that more are unhappy with Democracy. Now that's a fairly bland statement but I can remember being pretty miffed with [politics in general at that age and feel it's all part of growing up and discovering that life is not a bed of roses.

Cambridge Uni tends to be fairly left wing these days so I just wonder what the aim of this was and how it will really reveal a trend. I just wonder what they would like to replace it with. I guess every generation thinks they have all the answers.  I heard mention some time ago that many would like a more authoritarian government here. Oh well - be careful what you wish for would be my advice. Do you have any advice that might give the next generation a happier life?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8857377/Study-shows-millennials-losing-faith-democracy.html#comments