Black Lives Matter Apply to be a political party

[Nick]

the norse settled the coastal areas of many countries they went to , but not england...in england it was the danes.

A company I did a lot of work for was in Århus and the Danes love to recant their history, right down to when Hamburg was part of Sydjylland (Southern Jutland). What I learned was that any town in the UK ending in 'by' (pronounced boo) is a danish town.
Whitby meaning white town and unfortunately the word Grim in Danish means ugly, so if you are from Grimsby...Unlucky.
Liverpool fans will of course remember Jan Mølby (Jan Moolboo).

[Thomas]

Ethnicity

In 2011, 84% of Scotland's population reported their ethnicity as 'White: Scottish' and a further 8% as 'White: Other British'. Together, minority ethnic groups and white non-British groups (which include 'White: Irish', 'White: Polish', 'White: Gypsy/ Traveller' and 'White: Other white') made up 8% of the total population.

The percentage of people in Scotland from minority ethnic groups had doubled to 4%, up from 2% in 2001.

The Asian population is the largest minority ethnic group (3% of the population or 141,000 people), representing an increase of one percentage point (69,000) since 2001. Within this, Pakistani is the largest individual category, accounting for 1% of the total population. The African, Caribbean or Black groups made up 1% of the population of Scotland in 2011, an increase of 28,000 people since 2001. Mixed or multiple ethnic groups represented 0.4% (20,000) and other ethnic groups 0.3% (14,000) of the total population.

The proportion of the population reported as belonging to a minority ethnic group varied by council area. The highest figures were in the four council areas containing the large cities: in Glasgow City it was 12%, in the City of Edinburgh and in Aberdeen City it was 8%, and in Dundee City it was 6%.

In 2011, of the 1.5 million households containing more than one person, 84% (1.3 million) contained members who shared the same ethnic group. The other 16% of households included multiple ethnic groups.

84 % of the scottish people see themselves in terms of ethnicity as white scottish.??

Pat you better send a memo over to jockland and tell us its not allowed.

https://youtu.be/RAtacHPAHLI

ethnicity nationality and all the rest mean absolutely jack shit without the consent of the people never mind the basic markers of ethnic indentity.

400 years on  with us sweaties , 800 years with the irish and welsh and you would think you would have learned by now patman .

F@@@ the british.

[Thomas]

** Gene tests on a sample of "indigenous" Englishmen have thrown up a surprise black ancestry, providing new insight into a centuries-old African presence in Britain.

The research, funded by the Wellcome Trust, identified a rare West African Y chromosome in a group of men from Yorkshire who share a surname that dates back at least as far as the mid-14th century and have a typical European appearance. They owe their unusual Y chromosome to an African man living in England at least 250 years ago and perhaps as early as Roman times, the researchers say.

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11018-genes-reveal-west-african-heritage-of-white-brits/#ixzz6dhuFRm00

pat i dont disagree with this.

Once again you are conflating genetics , ethnicity and nationality.

I have long believed most europeans descend from the cradle of humanity in africa going way back..........but i thought it was east africa?

However once again this smashes your "british " ethnicity to pieces doesnt it?

However you look on it , britshness is on a shoogley peg .

[Borg Refinery]

As I pointed out, I wasn't generalising. I was referring to BAME the movement

What the heck is the 'black and ethnic minority movement'?

Is it a movement you just happen to have membership of if you happen to have an opinion and you're not white?

Like I said, you tried to infer this mythical 'BAME movement' all think and act alike.

[Thomas]

The basic issue you keep skirting past is language pat. Address why you believe the ethnic british dont share an ethnic british language.............one of the key cultural and ethnic markers of an ethnic identity.

over to you?

[Thomas]

Celtic languages and Germanic languages share Indo-European roots. Irish and Scots Gaelic are one branch (Goidelic) and Welsh and Breton another (Brythonic). Sharing the same small land mass dictates that there will be a general common history even if it comes down to rivalry and combat. As for common ancestry and culture, the Norse were all over Scotland, as well as much of England, and probably introduced much of what's now claimed as Scottish. The Roman**,  Normans, Anglo Saxons, etc, probably mongrelised the rest of England

If we dig into it, Scotland is probably no more distinct from the major mass of England, than Northumbria, Isle of Man, or the Isle of Wight.

The indo europeans  were a distinct group from pre history  , and here in europe that would cover pretty much every nation in europe bar the basques and hungarians.

So that being the case , we arent ethnic britons are we...you just defeated your own argument.

As for common ancestry and culture, the Norse were all over Scotland, as well as much of England,

the norse settled the coastal areas of many countries they went to , but not england...in england it was the danes. They were absorbed into the lands like scotland they settled.

That would make us all scandinavian then by your example , and the scandinavians setteld lands from iceland ( north  america) over to ukraine if not further.

You undermine your own ethnic arugment if this is what you believe because that would mean we arent ethnically british.

and probably introduced much of what's now claimed as Scottish.

no scottish is an anglish word only used in the modern times in scotland. It comes from latin , and refers to a gaelic speaking celt. If you look at the history of the catholic church , a scot was often used in the medieval times to also refer  to irish monks.

Yet again , you undermine your own ethnic argument.

The Roman**,  Normans, Anglo Saxons, etc, probably mongrelised the rest of England

there was little to no romans in what is now scotland or anglo saxons , and the norma elite made up a tiny part of the scottish ruling class of whom they intermarried with from the 12 th century onwards and became more scottish than the scottish.

Rober de brus , native scottish gaidhlig speaker was an exmaple of this.

If we dig into it, Scotland is probably no more distinct from the major mass of England, than Northumbria, Isle of Man, or the Isle of Wight.

in what way?

Scotlands native language is different from northumbria , the major mass of england , isle of whight , and the isle of man was once part of scotland.

Our history language culture and traditions etc etc are all different.....w e share things and have differences as do many other nations across europe with england...........that doesnt make the german or danish "british" because of shared historical or cultural traits with england  does it?

...and it certianly doesnt infer a british ethnicity.

[Nick]

Think I follow and — if it means what I think you're posting — I agree.

If fact, I'd go further and say that labelling around 8+ million people under the category of black, Asian and ethnic minority as BAME is both lazy and inaccurate.

Although I'm occasionally guilty of it myself, I think my references could be fairly (if wordily) substituted with non-White, Asian and ethnically non-British. And I hope I don't make the mistake of lumping them all together as one community with one opinion and outlook...

Well it's an acronym used by many, including David Lammy and I know I didn't come up with it.

[Nick]

Had Nick simply said David Lammy likes to be an annoying PC lefty who is a bit racist against White people,

As I pointed out, I wasn't generalising. I was referring to BAME the movement, not the people. But you continue to reference your initial POV rather than review it based on further explanation. It makes better TV!!

[patman post]

Celtic languages and Germanic languages share Indo-European roots. Irish and Scots Gaelic are one branch (Goidelic) and Welsh and Breton another (Brythonic). Sharing the same small land mass dictates that there will be a general common history even if it comes down to rivalry and combat. As for common ancestry and culture, the Norse were all over Scotland, as well as much of England, and probably introduced much of what's now claimed as Scottish. The Roman**,  Normans, Anglo Saxons, etc, probably mongrelised the rest of England

If we dig into it, Scotland is probably no more distinct from the major mass of England, than Northumbria, Isle of Man, or the Isle of Wight.

Personally, I'm more familiar with West Germanic and Italic languages — not through study (and not intending to do linguistic wheelies) but through being brought up in my early years surrounded by English, French, Dutch, Portuguese and Spanish speakers. Hence my interest...

** Gene tests on a sample of "indigenous" Englishmen have thrown up a surprise black ancestry, providing new insight into a centuries-old African presence in Britain.

The research, funded by the Wellcome Trust, identified a rare West African Y chromosome in a group of men from Yorkshire who share a surname that dates back at least as far as the mid-14th century and have a typical European appearance. They owe their unusual Y chromosome to an African man living in England at least 250 years ago and perhaps as early as Roman times, the researchers say.

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11018-genes-reveal-west-african-heritage-of-white-brits/#ixzz6dhuFRm00

[Thomas]

A famous quote from history is when king athelstan , counted as the first king of the english , expelled the "filthy british race" from exeter in 927ad and drove them beyond the river tamar.

[Thomas]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/23/battle-save-lapland-want-to-build-railroad

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/sami-reconciliation-process-sweden-minority-multiculturalism-human-rights-discrimination/amp/

The sorts of cultural genocidrs weren't just aimed at blacks, but folks forget about peoples like the Sami, or the Irish, and even the 'redback' poor white minority in the Caribbean who go back centuries.

Its not just about cultural genocide though dyno. I simply dont see myself as british. Neither did my parents grandparents family or friends.

My wife doesnt even call herself british......she is english.

Its to do with you language customs culture history ,stories and myths and legends. There is a clear and massive difference between england and the other three nations.

If a chinese guy from beijing came over to north wales and heard a native welsh speaker for example , is pat saying the chinese guy would go oh look ther is an ethnic briton and think he is the same ethnic group as the guy he spoke to in hackney the week before?

FFS.

Britishness is sort of an empty geographic label no one takes serious outside of a few nutjobs.

If you ever read old english books like the anglo saxon chronicle , or other stuff from english history it really impart onto you how the english traditionally and historically saw the british ( whom they termed the welsh) as something other ethnically from what they were...........so did  the scottish and irish.

[Thomas]

Some Irish guy pointed out that the whole myth of a 'celt' identity was a bit like "here be dragons".

I'm not sure myself but it makes sense.

Definitely true about a 'British' identity being an artificial construct though, we are very different to each other across the country just in accent alone, let alone a million other cultural things. The myth of homogeneity, particularly among these idiotic racists (not aimed at anyone on here) who think societies like the Finns are "homogenous", when you have folks like the Sami who couldn't be more different to the main 'culture' is silly.

Being british is an artifical construct , but it definetly isnt a modern day ethnicity.

A basic requirement of a ethnic identity is language , the british  ( modern british) dont have one. Take it out from there and you can see how calling the british an ethnic group is absurd.

Even basic things like wikipedia label the uk as a multi ethnic state and compare it with multi ethnic belgium.

It must be a blow to pat that the term ethnic was long in use long before his ancestors arrived in the uk .

As for celtic , there is a lot of myths legends and bullshit about that term.

Celtic is a cultural terms , nothing more , though i suppose in that sense it could be put in with ethnicity.

It refers to what is described as celtic languages , once spoken across europe from scotland wales ireland and what is now england in the west  , across central europe spain italy to bulgaria and turkey in the east.

Scotland , ireland wales , cornwall and brittany in france are the last remaining areas where the celtic languages are still alive in europe.

So when someone talks abouit a celtic identity ( its a bit archaic and im not sure you would get any scots irish welsh or bretons desribing themselves as celtic) its a bit like calling the english germanic in identity...it basically refers to your origins and language group.

There is a british language......its called welsh ( and you could add in cornish too as its p celtic) . This was once called  the british language by the scots irish and the english.

So ethnically i suppose you could say the welsh are the ethnic britons.


...but i have never heard anyone say the modern uk outside of modern immigration is a single british ethnic group. Its absurd , because non of the shared cultural traits and things that bind ethnic group exist between the differing peoples of the uk.

[Borg Refinery]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/23/battle-save-lapland-want-to-build-railroad

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/sami-reconciliation-process-sweden-minority-multiculturalism-human-rights-discrimination/amp/

The sorts of cultural genocidrs weren't just aimed at blacks, but folks forget about peoples like the Sami, or the Irish, and even the 'redback' poor white minority in the Caribbean who go back centuries.

[Borg Refinery]

funny though that among the major things that define ethnicity , are a common native language and culture  , shared history etc etc , yet these mythical british people you talk about dont  have a shared culture , for example scottish and irish traditions like halloween are alien to most english folk over a certain age ( till the modern era where the english think halloween is american) and other stumbling block is a common native language.

Why dont these ethnic british speak british like the ethnic germans speak german and so forth?

Even in things like sport , i have just watched my country qualify for the european championship.............why doesnt this mythical ethnic group the british have a british football team to cheer on  like other ethnic groups have a football team?


I could go on , but you get the gist of it.....there seems to be a lot of flaws in this mythical ethnicity.

Some Irish guy pointed out that the whole myth of a 'celt' identity was a bit like "here be dragons".

I'm not sure myself but it makes sense.

Definitely true about a 'British' identity being an artificial construct though, we are very different to each other across the country just in accent alone, let alone a million other cultural things. The myth of homogeneity, particularly among these idiotic racists (not aimed at anyone on here) who think societies like the Finns are "homogenous", when you have folks like the Sami who couldn't be more different to the main 'culture' is silly.

[Thomas]

I have never heard anyone claim the british ( in the modern sense as you mean) are an ethnic group.

Multi-ethnic states can be the result of two opposite events, either the recent creation of state borders at variance with traditional tribal territories, or the recent immigration of ethnic minorities into a former nation-state. Examples for the first case are found throughout Africa, where countries created during decolonization inherited arbitrary colonial borders, but also in European countries such as Belgium or United Kingdom.

I think you are conflating being a citizen of the united kingdom , a multi national multi ethnic sovereign state covering four nations and many ethni groups long before mass modern immigration , and a single ethnicity.