Assisted dying: Hancock on Covid lockdown travel rules

[patman post]

At the moment — depending on general awareness of the patient — I'm content with the fuzzy logic of prioritising pain control and comfort over the safety dosing factor of drugs. I admit there are other factors that could be in play, but having seen a well-loved family member still lucid, cogent, comfortable and participating in life 30min before they died I need convincing state sanctioned euthanasia is truly caring for — rather than dealing with — the terminally ill...

[johnofgwent]

People needing palliative care should be getting good palliative care. I know this doesn't happen, which is why I believe more effort and money should be directed towards this branch of medicine.
The NHS supports end of life care but, strangely, it still lacks a front line image among too many medical professionals who believe any death is a failure...

The medical school where I did my degree and my nephew did his Ph.D (the life sciences in those days came under the faculty of medicine, not the faculty of science) operated a policy whereby every medical sudent in their first clinical year was required to shadow a terminally ill patient. The purpose of that was twofold, to reinforce with steel rods the simple facts that a) death comes to everyone, b) while the purpose of medical training is indeed to kick the skinny guy in the black shawl in the nadgers and make him come back another day c) there is a point beyond which that day has come and nothing medical science has up its sleeve will usefully fix that ...
But secondly, and this i think is where that approach speaks to the issue you raise, the point of making each student do this was to make them confront, to some degree, some more than others, the simple fact that when it comes to it there is nothing they can do to untimately prevent death from occurring, and that if they have a serious problem with that, they need to fix it now, at the start of their course, before we waste any more money on them.

The poor sod who got to shadow dad in Nov / Dec 2005 knew he'd got a bad one. His supervisor knew me of course because I'd trained HIS supervisor when he was a rookie. The guy came to the final consultation when they gave dad his lethal morpine injection.

I remember him asking to come to the funeral and the wake. That raised a few eyebrows but i took his supervisor aside and told him straight as the eldest next of kin I certainly had no problem and as long as he didn't make a habit of it I saw no issues.
I remember the lad and my eldest got on like a house on fire. I also remember my mum and her generation thinking it scandalous.

I recall my main thought was "well he seems a nice enough kid, and he's got excellent prospects ....."
When all is said and done, in the midst of life we are in death, and that's all there is to it. The issue for me is when politicians piss with the system and thus piss on the dying.

[papasmurf]

Nor should people be dispatched simply because they're inconvenient or made to feel a burden...

Agreed. I would comment further but I would get censored.

[patman post]

Quite, people should not be kept alive just for the sake of it.

Nor should people be dispatched simply because they're inconvenient or made to feel a burden...

[papasmurf]

The NHS supports end of life care but, strangely, it still lacks a front line image among too many medical professionals who believe any death is a failure...

Quite, people should not be kept alive just for the sake of it.

[patman post]

I think the world is split into two. Those who've had to bury someone who needed "palliative care" and those who have not

People needing palliative care should be getting good palliative care. I know this doesn't happen, which is why I believe more effort and money should be directed towards this branch of medicine.
The NHS supports end of life care but, strangely, it still lacks a front line image among too many medical professionals who believe any death is a failure...

[papasmurf]

I think the world is split into two. Those who've had to bury someone who needed "palliative care" and those who have not

Quite.

[johnofgwent]

Have to say I also have some misgivings.

Until we can be sure that old and infirm are in no position to be coerced into wanting to do away with themselves by others who would benefit, or because they feel a burden, I would vote against legalising euthanasia.

My support would currently go towards putting much more effort into palliative care...

Yeah. The roman catholic archbishop of cardiff said something like that in january 2006 on Any Questions
I had just cremated my father.
I spent a good few hours penning an email to 'any answers' and pulled no punches
Then i got a callout. So i never heard the programme.

At five o clock my phone started ringing with "what the hell did you do to the poor sod" messages. apparently my letter ripping the shitbag to shreds was read out and the for next hapf hour the lines were jammed with "me too" messages.
I think the world is split into two. Those who've had to bury someone who needed "palliative care" and those who have not
I have no misgivings whatsoever. But that's because soem liberal fuckwit gave a fucking nigerian illegal my father's hospice bed and left him to die in a stinlking hospital ward where the floor hadn't been cleaned for a fortnight.

[patman post]

I have supported assisted suicide for a long time but not when it could be used to remove bed blockers.

Have to say I also have some misgivings.

Until we can be sure that old and infirm are in no position to be coerced into wanting to do away with themselves by others who would benefit, or because they feel a burden, I would vote against legalising euthanasia.

My support would currently go towards putting much more effort into palliative care...

[papasmurf]

I have supported assisted suicide for a long time but not when it could be used to remove bed blockers.

[johnofgwent]

I think you misunderstand me.
I have sympathy with those who might seek assistance at a time when they are unable to end their lives themselves, without involving others.
However, at present it is against the law of the land to aid abet counsel or procure suicide, and as such, the government should not be allowing travel exemptions for the purpose.
In fact, if the government believe assisted suicide is Ok, they should put an act through Parliament, doing it properly, rather than expect other foreign countries to do their dirty work for them.

Well it's not exactly an 'exemption' is it.

My daughter has a 'special exemption' for not needing to wear a facemask because they trigger flashback claustrophobia to the evening she thought she would burn alive in the wreck of my car she was driving when some fuckwit smashed into her and rammed it into a lane with stone walls that wouldn't let the doors open, then set the engine alight...

McDonald's are about to reap the reward of a nine grand fine for refusing a registered blue badge holder into the shop because she didn't have a facemask. I'm off to buy popcorn...

The travel restrictions declare that you need a 'reasonable excuse' to travel. Not an 'exemption'. An 'excuse'. Piss poor grammar but what can we expect.

But what Hancock has done is pointed out that travelling to Switzerland to die comes under the list of things they consider 'reasonable excuse'. The same as going out to buy food, and now also buying replacement clothing for the bloodstained rags you arrive in hospital in, and washing machines to replace those that blow up and televisions to replace those stolen.

The reasonableness of going to Switzerland to die was sorted out long before this pox hit. The time for the anti suicide lobby to whinge was then, not now.

[Forum admin]

Moderation Notice

Thread edited and posts deleted.
Papasmurf, please desist from hijacking threads.

[Nick]

Forum Admin - deleted, thread hijacking

In your head you made a legitimate comment. I suspect that is where the disconnect is. 😉

[papasmurf]

Forum Admin - deleted, thread hijacking

[Barry]

Well, I suppose someone of your beliefs would see it that way.

I've watched six relatives die of cancer and I now have to watch a mate of mine of many years, and another best mates missus go the same way. Thanks to not getting treatment thanks to this pox.

I have a different view.

I see Hancock declaring a wish to travel to Switzerland to die to be equally reasonable as travelling there on business.

The whole point of going there is to go there under your own steam while you still can.

I think to take a different view is to decide such people die in agony instead of in a way they choose.

Isn't that playing God

I think you misunderstand me.
I have sympathy with those who might seek assistance at a time when they are unable to end their lives themselves, without involving others.
However, at present it is against the law of the land to aid abet counsel or procure suicide, and as such, the government should not be allowing travel exemptions for the purpose.
In fact, if the government believe assisted suicide is Ok, they should put an act through Parliament, doing it properly, rather than expect other foreign countries to do their dirty work for them.