Brexit: Boris Johnson misses EU deadline to explain breach of international law

[Borchester]

And Hungary probably wrote back and said sod off we're not Greece.

Pretty much. As did the Poles. And after 9 years of Obain the EU Commission is seriously thinking about writing a rude letter back. Of course, first of all they have to set up another committee to decide who is going to buy the stamp.

[GerryT]

Because they don't give a flying one full stop, how many times do you need that pointed out, like pointing the last thing the Americans need right now, is a bunch of amateurs trying to feck them up even more than they have already managed themselves.

Your right, the last thing USA wants now is the UK trying to do a trade deal

[cromwell]

What are you talking about, the uk can do what it wants also. Nobody will try stop the UK passing the IMB, like Hungary its your own business.
And the EU can do what they want which in that circumstance would be to look to take the UK to court and pull down the shutters on possibly more.
The EU has written to Hungary and lets see what the people of Hungary decide to do, its their business.

And Hungary probably wrote back and said sod off we're not Greece.

[Borchester]

Good luck with that Gerry. Ireland is the EU as you keep saying, so you'll have those sanctions to deal with. Just what Ireland needs, a trade war with the UK.

Apparently a trade war with the UK will knock 3% off the Irish growth rate for 2021 and knock the country's beef farmers sideways. Admittedly, the Irish beef farmers are continually being knocked sideways by the Irish beef industry so there will be no change there.

I suppose all we can do is wait upon events and hope that Simon Coveney does not send the Garda to arrest us.

[Barry]

If this did escalate the EU could legally impose trade sanctions on the UK, that would be close to crippling the UK economy.

Good luck with that Gerry. Ireland is the EU as you keep saying, so you'll have those sanctions to deal with. Just what Ireland needs, a trade war with the UK.

[Nick]

It doesn't matter what China, USA or Israel thinks. It matters what the EU thinks. If this did escalate the EU could legally impose trade sanctions on the UK, that would be close to crippling the UK economy. You obviously haven't a clue how many industries are intertwined between the EU and UK and the relative size of the EU and UK.
But it won't get there. Eventually people will see Johnson for what he is, a second rate Trump and he didn't last !

2018 contributions show below that the EU is losing over 18% of its subs, plus 12% that the EU economy has shrunk due to Covid. Forecasts suggest the EU economy with have an overall collapse of 3.9%: That's 16% of its coffers gone when you add in Brexit. I know you're going to get your Gerculator out and tell us it's just £17.50 and that the EU won't even feel it but you know that is bollox.

They are going to have 6 or 7 countries feeding the other 20 now as it is highly unlikely that Ireland and Finland will be net contributors. If the UK doesn't get a deal it will not be catastrophic but the EU will have a triple whammy.

[Sheepy]

Their not party to the international agreement. Why would they care that much

But how do you think a UK trade discussion with China or USA would go with those countries, let's see. "so mr UK you want us to believe the UK will honour its proposed trade deal with us (insert China or USA), that your a country that can be trusted and wouldn't look to abandon it's commitments in the next say 11 months ?"..."Maybe mr UK we need so solid legal penalty clauses inserted that are unilaterally actioned by us...."

Because they don't give a flying one full stop, how many times do you need that pointed out, like pointing the last thing the Americans need right now, is a bunch of amateurs trying to feck them up even more than they have already managed themselves.

[GerryT]

Oh wait but you said it does matter in trading terms, erm now you admit it doesn't.

Their not party to the international agreement. Why would they care that much

But how do you think a UK trade discussion with China or USA would go with those countries, let's see. "so mr UK you want us to believe the UK will honour its proposed trade deal with us (insert China or USA), that your a country that can be trusted and wouldn't look to abandon it's commitments in the next say 11 months ?"..."Maybe mr UK we need so solid legal penalty clauses inserted that are unilaterally actioned by us...."

[Sheepy]

It doesn't matter what China, USA or Israel thinks. It matters what the EU thinks. If this did escalate the EU could legally impose trade sanctions on the UK, that would be close to crippling the UK economy. You obviously haven't a clue how many industries are intertwined between the EU and UK and the relative size of the EU and UK.
But it won't get there. Eventually people will see Johnson for what he is, a second rate Trump and he didn't last !

Oh wait but you said it does matter in trading terms, erm now you admit it doesn't.

[GerryT]

Bullshit does it, that has been proven time and time again. All it is, is just another hopeful throw of the dice. As though the Chinese, Americans, Israelis or anyone else actually give a hoot about international so called law.

It doesn't matter what China, USA or Israel thinks. It matters what the EU thinks. If this did escalate the EU could legally impose trade sanctions on the UK, that would be close to crippling the UK economy. You obviously haven't a clue how many industries are intertwined between the EU and UK and the relative size of the EU and UK.
But it won't get there. Eventually people will see Johnson for what he is, a second rate Trump and he didn't last !

[Sheepy]

It matters when you look at the facts.

With the IMB its claimed (but easily proven) that the EU will be looking for the UK to pay penalties and make good on it's promise if the UK continues with it's illegal course. In this instance the EU is the much larger party and the UK like it or not is still very tied to the EU. "Brexit means Brexit" doesn't mean anything at all changes, other that life for the UK will get harder.
With time the UK will carve a new path, new trade routes, new business models. That won't happen over night.

Bullshit does it, that has been proven time and time again. All it is, is just another hopeful throw of the dice. As though the Chinese, Americans, Israelis or anyone else actually give a hoot about international so called law.

[GerryT]

International law? Israel breaks international law daily,  so that ain't worth the paper it is written on, International law my backside.

It matters when you look at the facts.

With the IMB its claimed (but easily proven) that the EU will be looking for the UK to pay penalties and make good on it's promise if the UK continues with it's illegal course. In this instance the EU is the much larger party and the UK like it or not is still very tied to the EU. "Brexit means Brexit" doesn't mean anything at all changes, other that life for the UK will get harder.
With time the UK will carve a new path, new trade routes, new business models. That won't happen over night.

[Sheepy]

CLASSIC !!

But the UK can't pass a bill without breaking international law.

International law? Israel breaks international law daily,  so that ain't worth the paper it is written on, International law my backside.

[GerryT]

Interesting thanks. I hadn't realized you'd amended the law to take effect at the end of this year, hopefully it will have the desired effect withoyt reducing foreign business in Ireland.

The change happened in 2016 and prevented any new multinational in doing this practice but it allowed existing companies continuing until the end of 2020. Funnily enough this let to more multinationals investing and pushing money to IRL for revenue purposes. IRL still has a steady stream of well educated graduates and a low corporation tax rate. It will continue to attract high tech multinationals. With the UK leaving the EU and no direct tariff free access that will strengthen our market position in the EU.

Ok but I saw a lot of scandals reported and some commentary that not enough had been done. Both in the news and in an Irish forum I was curious about, although they did mostly lay into us with some real words of fire.

FOr some reason Multinations get a bad press in IRL by a certain section of the community. Thinking they don't pay enough tax here, reality is about 80% of Irish tax revenue comes from these companies.
The only way to cut down on tax avoidance is a united global approach to how corporate tax revenue is taxed, I don't think that will happen in my life time.

Ok, but suspending democracy is the ultimate act of non-convergence with EU values...

Yes and if that's how Hungary goes I would expect their membership will be suspended. There's nothing the EU will do to try stop Hungary deciding their own direction. The EU has a track record of bending the rules and slowing the process for member states. I don't see this happening any other way. The EU will give Hungary every opportunity and time to change what they are doing. But in the long run the EU will take action. Note I do say it does this with member states, some people think this is the EU's way of doing all their business. But it's not.
But Hungary and Poland are both big beneficiaries of the EU, their political leaders may have support now but lets see how this plays out.

[Borg Refinery]

USA multinationals funnel money to their subsidiaries in IRL and onto say the caymen Islands. IRL doesn't recgonise this as an Irish company doing work abroad and the Caymen's don't do any reporting so USA multinationals are using this loophole to not pay corporation tax. This IRL law was changed in 2016 and from the end off this yr this inflow will be seen as taxable income and will be subject to IRL corporate tax. As this wasn't a source of income for IRL revenue it wasn't expected to cause a hit, but surprisingly more USA multinationals have selected IRL for their IP tax base and in IRL we have seen an increase in revenue take.

But this is a prime example of how the EU does NOT take a countries sovereignty or the ability to make local decisions. IRL has a low corporation tax rate and it uses this to attract Multinational companies, but it's only one means of attracting these companies. IRL recognised it's future was in high tech, pharma, semiconductor, research, data centres, finance. With little natural resources and a small island the future was and is in educating it's workforce. My kids have just stared 3rd level, the secondary school they came from would have the majority going to 3rd level. Most of them will end up doing a masters. IRL saw no future in production as low cost economies are near impossible to compete with. So I think our low corporation tax rates are here to stay.

Interesting thanks. I hadn't realized you'd amended the law to take effect at the end of this year, hopefully it will have the desired effect withoyt reducing foreign business in Ireland.

Minister for agriculture Dara Calleary and Senator Jerry Buttimer broke the c19 restriction playing a game of golf & dinner after, they decided to resign (normal talk for go before we bullet you).
Agriculture Minister Barry Cowen had a drink driving controversy and he was sacked for that.
You just don't see as much bare faced lies, politicians are called out on claims they make so their more careful.

Ok but I saw a lot of scandals reported and some commentary that not enough had been done. Both in the news and in an Irish forum I was curious about, although they did mostly lay into us with some real words of fire.

It's not irrelevant, you said why hasn't the EU taken action against Hungary, Hungary is a sovereign state, the EU is not. If Hungary wishes to do what it's doing it's their business. The EU won't interfere in domestic politics. But the EU has indicated it's objections to what's going on, if things continue you can expect the EU to take a measured response, there's talk of removing EU funding and that can be escalated depending on how Hungary responds. If the Eu went around throwing out threats there would be no EU left, these things take time and diplomacy but in the log run if Hungary continues with it's chosen path then you can expect to see Hungary outside the EU as their goals would be different to the other member states.

Ok, but suspending democracy is the ultimate act of non-convergence with EU values...