Why is this still happening?

[cromwell]

Politicians looking for another magic wand? Sure sounds like it, now we have the fastest growing rate of mental illness, suddenly it is relevant.

What? Give me a break Sheeps this story link is not about people with mental health problems (another one not read the link properly) this is about people with learning disabilities,their number isn't fast growing the numbers are what they were before covid,sure they might be suffering mental health problems as well no doubt exacerbated by the treatment some are subjected to.

[Sheepy]

Politicians looking for another magic wand? Sure sounds like it, now we have the fastest growing rate of mental illness, suddenly it is relevant.

[cromwell]

No its not irrevelent, she is the chair[person] of the select committee on human rights, and she is the one making the comments I was addressing, as I've already pointed out to you

Secondly, the "figures" in the link prove nothing, they simply show the amount of times those techniques were used. They say nothing of the circumstances or the validity of the use (eg, how necessary was it or was anyone in danger) and you can't possibly know that unless data or evidence of those circumstances were also made available. The only thing it does say is that holding people face down is against government guidelines. But hey, lots of things are against "government guidelines", but that's never stopped them being used in the real world

My point was about Harman making such comments like "basically a human rights abuse". Unless she has some evidence of that, in which case bring it on and hang the guilty ffs? Just as well say that as make dramatic comments about "abuse" based on nothing but the amount of times restraint techniques were used or not used

It doesn't matter whether someone is a criminal, a nutter or has a learning disability, if they are violent and hence a danger to themselves or to others, then they have to be dealt with. You sound like Patman Post making that stupid claim that a drunk tasered at a railway station was "just a humble blind man". You do know that you can be blind or disabled and still be a complete c**t or a danger to others, don't you?

So what then? Whats the answer? Don't dare tackle the disabled if they are violent unless you've got CCTV to cover your arse and a raft of Guardian reading eye witnesses because it "ain't right"?

What we'll end up with is people not wanting to go into what is already a difficult job, or leaving it because they know they don't have the confidence of their superiors, or risking being prosecuted when this kind of shite comes up. Rather like "blue flu" in US (and even some UK) Police departments/forces, where hundreds of experienced and disillusioned officers are leaving the force, because they've no confidence they'll be supported because of dramatics like this. By all means, lets have evidence if there's wrongdoing, but this kind of handwringing in its absence will solve nothing and make it even more difficult to get decent people to do the fecking job

What a load of cobblers,did you even look at the vid of winterbourne view,so the courts got it all wrong when they sentenced them?
Blue bloody flu,if they're anything like these tossers at winterbourne view or worton hall the sooner they resign and sod off the better.

As far as this

You do know that you can be blind or disabled and still be a complete c**t or a danger to others, don't you?

Like Borky what you know about people with a learning disability or autism you could write on the back of a stamp,pretty much like me about soldiering.

And this

So what then? Whats the answer? Don't dare tackle the disabled if they are violent unless you've got CCTV to cover your arse and a raft of Guardian reading eye witnesses because it "ain't right"?

what have guardian reading eye witnesses got to do with this,do you know why every custody suite in UK policing has CCTV? Or even that the same route is being followed by some because of  winterbourne view and worlton hall.
And the comment "decent people doing the job" do you rate those involved in those two cases as decent people?

Actually some of the decent people ,real professionals did whistleblow about what was going but were ignored,still when there's a profit to be made from vulnerable people who gives a toss?
And forgot to add handwringing really? A comment easily lobbed in but we are talking human beings albeit very vulnerable and in some cases hostage to organisations only concerned with profit and a minority determined to make their lives miserable.

[DeppityDawg]

Well the fact you don't like Harperson is irrelevant,the figures are there in the link minus of course God knows how many aren't,which is a relevant point.

No its not irrevelent, she is the chair[person] of the select committee on human rights, and she is the one making the comments I was addressing, as I've already pointed out to you

Secondly, the "figures" in the link prove nothing, they simply show the amount of times those techniques were used. They say nothing of the circumstances or the validity of the use (eg, how necessary was it or was anyone in danger) and you can't possibly know that unless data or evidence of those circumstances were also made available. The only thing it does say is that holding people face down is against government guidelines. But hey, lots of things are against "government guidelines", but that's never stopped them being used in the real world

My point was about Harman making such comments like "basically a human rights abuse". Unless she has some evidence of that, in which case bring it on and hang the guilty ffs? Just as well say that as make dramatic comments about "abuse" based on nothing but the amount of times restraint techniques were used or not used

To reiterate these aren't protestors at a violent demo,nor criminal law breakers and most certainly not nutters but vulnerable people with a learning disability who won't benefit from a good shoeing,dismiss it all you like but this ain't right and never will be.

It doesn't matter whether someone is a criminal, a nutter or has a learning disability, if they are violent and hence a danger to themselves or to others, then they have to be dealt with. You sound like Patman Post making that stupid claim that a drunk tasered at a railway station was "just a humble blind man". You do know that you can be blind or disabled and still be a complete c**t or a danger to others, don't you?

So what then? Whats the answer? Don't dare tackle the disabled if they are violent unless you've got CCTV to cover your arse and a raft of Guardian reading eye witnesses because it "ain't right"?

What we'll end up with is people not wanting to go into what is already a difficult job, or leaving it because they know they don't have the confidence of their superiors, or risking being prosecuted when this kind of shite comes up. Rather like "blue flu" in US (and even some UK) Police departments/forces, where hundreds of experienced and disillusioned officers are leaving the force, because they've no confidence they'll be supported because of dramatics like this. By all means, lets have evidence if there's wrongdoing, but this kind of handwringing in its absence will solve nothing and make it even more difficult to get decent people to do the fecking job

[cromwell]

Who the feck are you, Patbox Post all of a sudden? 

Sorry, I'm just skeptical that there is a problem as big as its being made to sound here, and was asking for clarification by way of actual figures/cases/prosecutions. Not like Harperson isn't going to jump on the nearest bandwagon of course, is it? In light of her record her judgement is hardly something I'd put much stock in

Nazi racist nut job over and out

Well the fact you don't like Harperson is irrelevant,the figures are there in the link minus of course God knows how many aren't,which is a relevant point.

People were jailed after winterbourne view (look it up) 10 people arrested in 2019 over worlton hall which has since been closed, and perhaps cases held up by covid.

To reiterate these aren't protestors at a violent demo,nor criminal law breakers and most certainly not nutters but vulnerable people with a learning disability who won't benefit from a good shoeing,dismiss it all you like but this ain't right and never will be.
https://www.mencap.org.uk/press-release/one-year-whorlton-hall-abuse-scandal-yet-people-learning-disability-andor-autism

[Borg Refinery]

Quick google.





https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nhs-mental-health-patients-staff-abuse-rises-88-percent-data-figures-research-a7880276.html%3Famp&ved=2ahUKEwjeitqp1fjsAhUGXMAKHa1JBUIQFjACegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw2I5XCnkq75E5Na0D7NhXli&ampcf=1

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default/files/20170720_stateofmh_report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjeitqp1fjsAhUGXMAKHa1JBUIQFjADegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw2vzvIhBk6ckZ9ONGRc87TN

Anyway, the scorned Harpies in parliament will do nothing about this, not to mention the rabid attack dogs on the other side who want to blindly attack things, like one of the fellas having an episode of PTSD or something in the institutions, but the Starmer rabid atrackers would do nothing to change the system despite going nuts about it.

It was a pretty big failure under Bliar also.

[DeppityDawg]

OK so I appreciate you are being facetious here

Who the feck are you, Patbox Post all of a sudden? 

but the evidence is plain to see and let's face it CCTV doesn't cost a fortune,also whilst I accept there may be 19  stone people  connected with this link they are by no means nutters simply people with autism or a learning disability..........liberal tosser over and out.

Sorry, I'm just skeptical that there is a problem as big as its being made to sound here, and was asking for clarification by way of actual figures/cases/prosecutions. Not like Harperson isn't going to jump on the nearest bandwagon of course, is it? In light of her record her judgement is hardly something I'd put much stock in

Nazi racist nut job over and out

[cromwell]

Ok, ok, before all you liberal tossers go having a nervous breakdown Is there any actual data on this? Are there any figures to show the extent of the problem?

....oh sh*t ...Beelbeeb...Beelbeeb...down boy...down! 

OK so I appreciate you are being facetious here but the evidence is plain to see and let's face it CCTV doesn't cost a fortune,also whilst I accept there may be 19  stone people  connected with this link they are by no means nutters simply people with autism or a learning disability..........liberal tosser over and out.

[DeppityDawg]

Ok, ok, before all you liberal tossers go having a nervous breakdown Is there any actual data on this? Are there any figures to show the extent of the problem?

....oh sh*t ...Beelbeeb...Beelbeeb...down boy...down! 

[Borg Refinery]

 Such abuses go on throughout the various care and similar institution systems in the country. Old people, young people, the impaired, prisons etc, you name it. It's a pretty sick wall to wall catalogue of abuse and the corny bastards in parliament will cry about it, then do absolutely everything they can to ensure people get abused with sick fucks in society approving of it, because said MP's helped create the environment of hate where it thrives.

It will probably only get much worse under this govt but there you go.

[cromwell]

Winterbourne view
https://youtu.be/Qy3qg32hKFc

[cromwell]

Locking anyone up is rarely a good idea, but it is usually the least worse solution.

So apart from a group hug and a rousing rendition of Kumbaya, which is your solution Ollie?

Oh ffs Borky go to specsavers,what part of there should be CCTV (as in custody suites) that would protect  both sides and all incidents should be recorded.
Also are you familiar with what happened at winterbourne view Bristol and Whorlton hall co Durham? Read up and watch them and sing what you like,dragging people from their beds assaulting them and taunting them on a regular basis is not the worst least solution.

And actually in these cases we're not really talking about 19 stone blokes kicking off or the criminally insane,no we are talking about often young people with complex needs,sometimes with severe autism and or learning disabilities,I would hazard a guess though please  correct me if Im wrong what you know about these people you could write on the back of a stamp.

[Borg Refinery]

And my answer was there,it was they should always record when they restrain someone and there should be CCTV to record what occurs,and you didn't answer if you thought isolating someone for months perhaps years is a good idea.

I suggest this is probably about right.

[DeppityDawg]

Well having done so in more recent years I feel like I am able to judge

I was more referring to Harriet Harperson rather than you. Although looking at your answer to Barry, what happens if there isn't CCTV handily available in the location the 19 stone nutter kicks off at? What if the person in question kicks off multiple times or there are others (in the appropriate facility for example) where there might be many people with disorders and the staff might be filling in "reports" for fun?

If you've done it yourself then you know how difficult and stressful it can be to restrain a violent person. My comment was specific to Harriet Harman's comments about "inhuman practices", when I'm pretty sure HH has little to no experience of dealing with violent people, mental disorders or not.

It's easy to throw accusations like that around

[Borchester]

And my answer was there,it was they should always record when they restrain someone and there should be CCTV to record what occurs,and you didn't answer if you thought isolating someone for months perhaps years is a good idea.

Locking anyone up is rarely a good idea, but it is usually the least worse solution.

So apart from a group hug and a rousing rendition of Kumbaya, which is your solution Ollie?