Another UK record...

[johnofgwent]

The bit you are missing is that this was not covered up or secret - this methodology was published and open from the beginning and was done in order to be able to collect data very quickly and report numbers on a daily basis, in the knowledge that they would not be 100% accurate for various reasons, one of which you identify.

You are also not mentioning that there are various other data sources that are issued with a longer time lag, but which do not have the limitation you are pointing out, but rather go by the actual causes of death.

My understanding is that if someone was hit by a bus within 28 days of a +ve covid test, they would appear as a number in the daily PHE number, but they would not be counted in later on issued ONS figures and other data that takes longer to assemble.

As I'm sure you know, scientists do actually read all these definitions and are quite capable of picking which data sources to use and understanding their limitations.

I find your belief that world governments have purposely exaggerated the Covid-19 crisis in order to increase the share price of Pharma companies a bit far fetched, although I do certainly suspect that there has been some level of corruption and nepotism involved in some of the government contracts that were given out.

well, if they were open and honest they made a pretty piss poor showing otf it back in july
and the other bolt on - which we have covered before - of "covid contributing" is equally wooly. But we've done this before.
I have next to no confidence in any of the other figures specifically becaue i tried to work out what they were whe i was sat on my arse furloughed, and despite being trained for years to unravel and expose scientific bullshit, found the results as stated too bereft of detail that was not open to ambiguous interpretation to be meaningful. And as i said, I was trained to nitpick in order that bullshitters would not get past me if i ever had to referee something being published.

To re-iterate though, my main concern is simply that, when i put my white lab coat on and look at these numbers through those eyes, i cannot make sense of them to a degree that would allow me to approve publication. Now if that translates as "my lecturers, fellow researchers and fellows of my learned society moulded me as a sceptical curmudgeon", well so be it, they would wear that accusation as a badge of honour and a sign of a job well done given the frankly abysmal standard of some research papers allowed to be published in the 80's and 90's.
Any thoughts on my other point, the longevity (or not) of acquired immunity from the current vaccines ..

[Borchester]

UK is the first European country to report 50,000 deaths from coronavirus. It's also in the top five worldwide. A speedy mass vaccination programme is needed to take he edge off this undesirable record...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk-becomes-fifth-country-to-exceed-50000-coronavirus-deaths-uk-country-country-virus-public-health-england-b1721291.html

Dunno Pat. I am not so sure that all these these vaccines have been properly test. And I am old

Best to leave matters be.

Mod Edited

[Javert]

Five thousand people were said to have died from COVID19 because the bean counters - who needed to big up the critical nature of the disease to ensure their political masters got the share dividend boost from the pharma companies they held shares in - reported you as dying from COVID if you died of any cause whatsoever within 60 days of a positive test and the reduction of that from 60 to 28 does nothing to address the lie that stating you died of COVID because you died within a month of a positive test is a lie if you died of the cancer they did not treat because of COVID, and you caught the pox when they called you in to tell you they were going to let you die of cancer.
When I made that point earlier, i was challenged as to how many actually were in that situation

The bit you are missing is that this was not covered up or secret - this methodology was published and open from the beginning and was done in order to be able to collect data very quickly and report numbers on a daily basis, in the knowledge that they would not be 100% accurate for various reasons, one of which you identify.

You are also not mentioning that there are various other data sources that are issued with a longer time lag, but which do not have the limitation you are pointing out, but rather go by the actual causes of death.

My understanding is that if someone was hit by a bus within 28 days of a +ve covid test, they would appear as a number in the daily PHE number, but they would not be counted in later on issued ONS figures and other data that takes longer to assemble.

As I'm sure you know, scientists do actually read all these definitions and are quite capable of picking which data sources to use and understanding their limitations.

I find your belief that world governments have purposely exaggerated the Covid-19 crisis in order to increase the share price of Pharma companies a bit far fetched, although I do certainly suspect that there has been some level of corruption and nepotism involved in some of the government contracts that were given out.

[johnofgwent]

I am not remotely convinced of either the truth of that statistic, or the suggestion mass vaccination will help

My problem with the numbers relates directly to the fact that the figures were shoddily collected and the government admits were wrongly presented.

Five thousand people were said to have died from COVID19 because the bean counters - who needed to big up the critical nature of the disease to ensure their political masters got the share dividend boost from the pharma companies they held shares in - reported you as dying from COVID if you died of any cause whatsoever within 60 days of a positive test and the reduction of that from 60 to 28 does nothing to address the lie that stating you died of COVID because you died within a month of a positive test is a lie if you died of the cancer they did not treat because of COVID, and you caught the pox when they called you in to tell you they were going to let you die of cancer.
When I made that point earlier, i was challenged as to how many actually were in that situation

I invite my challenger to come and tell my mate Paul, whose cancer treatment was halted because he coughed in the initial appointment, and who has now been given a terminal prognosis after that delay, and whose sister tested positive after sitting round in the waiting room to collect him ... that he is a figment of my imagination.
That addresses my concerns regarding the numbers

Now for my concerns regarding the vaccine
It is a fact, as noted by my pal in the Royal Society, that the vaccine trials were published rather earlier than would have been normal. There is a damn fine reason. The globulin levels triggered by the "vaccine" - which give you the 'immunity' fall back alarmingly after a very short time, siuggesting that the vaccine is ineffective after that.

Now, this is not all bad news, i mean, yellow fever vaccine only lasts for a short time and journalists and explorers have sore arms to rival junkies with all the repeat dosing, as I can myself attest to when i was an active animal experimenter whose vaccination card looked like John Bloody Simpsons, but the reports on some of these vaccine trials show a falling off after as little as 60 days.
This means the pharma companies had to prematurely report the "success" for had they performed the standard duration test it would have shown the degree of imunity to be minimal after the three or six month test window .. thus provinf the vaccine to be pretty useless other than as a means to keep front line health professionals reasonably safe - assuming of course they are vulnerable to the spike protein that mimics ACE2 / ACE2 inhibitor and thius allow the virus to cross into key organs to wreak havoc.

[Barry]

Proportionately, Belgium are on 1185, Spain 858, USA 746, and the UK 740. (Deaths per 1 million population).
I'm not sure each country is counting in the same way, it's not a competition, and the virus doesn't care if you are a Tory or a Labour supporter.
Apparently it cares whether you are a man or woman, and it cares if you are of Asian heritage.

[Borg Refinery]

UK is the first European country to report 50,000 deaths from coronavirus. It's also in the top five worldwide. A speedy mass vaccination programme is needed to take he edge off this undesirable record...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk-becomes-fifth-country-to-exceed-50000-coronavirus-deaths-uk-country-country-virus-public-health-england-b1721291.html

You should be pleased, you are a Tory and your party have done incredibly well yet again.

[patman post]

UK is the first European country to report 50,000 deaths from coronavirus. It's also in the top five worldwide. A speedy mass vaccination programme is needed to take he edge off this undesirable record...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk-becomes-fifth-country-to-exceed-50000-coronavirus-deaths-uk-country-country-virus-public-health-england-b1721291.html