Re:He who pays the pension calls the tune?

[Thomas]

I know this is o/topic , but just to reiterate my point about labour telling porkie pies to get into power .

Last year corbyns labour were telling voters of all the wonderfull freebies we were all going to get regarding pensions and all the rest , in scotland they were also promising free bus passes for everyone in scotland.

Free bus travel for all under Scottish Labour, leader tells Dundee conference

https://archive.fo/FtazE



usual freebies and righteous stuff from labour .

meanwhile in wales , where labour have run the country for two decades....




They say beware of greeks bearing gifts. More like beware of labour bearing gifts and offers of something for nothing...

[Thomas]

It is often stated by the retired that they have paid for their pension. Probably true with private ones though their employer often contributed a lot too. But not true with the state pension which is financed by current taxpayers. Some like to pretend otherwise of course.

everyone is aware of the mechanics of the tax system more or less regarding pensions. People are right to regard themselves having paid for their pension.

Its pretty much an irrelevant point you keep making in the grand scheme of things.

Your anti semitic friend wurzels promises on pensions last decemebr were being criticised by pension providers as being pie in the sky and having massive repercussions on other areas of government spending , with most saying while the promises labour made to voters in not increasing state pension age and all the rest sounded good , it would have to be paid for somehow with massive tax rises labour as ever were keeping quiet about.

Labour the party of massive taxation to fund massive spending.

[Thomas]

Says the person who said it in 2 posts on this page.

quote me what you are talking about , or we can dismiss this as yet another of your made up comments as per norm.

[srb7677]

Is there a post stating anything different on the forum?

It is often stated by the retired that they have paid for their pension. Probably true with private ones though their employer often contributed a lot too. But not true with the state pension which is financed by current taxpayers. Some like to pretend otherwise of course.

[Nick]

No but any sensible and honest person is aware of the reality of it.

What your NI contributions buy is an entitlement to something future taxpayers will have to pay for. It does not pay for it. The government uses it to pay for current expenditure.

You're explaining stuff that everyone knows.

[Nick]

I might well be clear what he is saying, but  in terms of facts the money he paid in was treated as tax income by the governments he helped elect throughout his working life and immediately spent as part of current government expenditure. It was not placed in some mythical pot to be collected later. The state pension has never been funded by previous contributions but by existing taxpayers. Hence working people like me are slaving our arses off and paying our taxes to pay for current pensioners amongst othere things, with the promise that when we retire, future workers will pay for us. That's how it works. Fact!

Is there a post stating anything different on the forum?

[Javert]

But let's not as pensioners present or future pretend that our state pensions are paid by anyone other than current taxpayers.

Well to me it's not an issue of gratitude or not gratitude, but, it's more that sometimes I discuss with people who seem to think that because they've already paid into their pot and their pension is all "paid for", they seem to feel that when they take gambles with the UK economy in general by the way they vote, there is no way it will ever impact on them.

This is not really correct, as we can see where the government is already making noises about removing the triple lock from the state pension, and if the economy collapsed completely, there would not be money to pay the same amounts of state pension. 

Further, even those who have a company pension, their pension is not 100% safe in the event of a major economic collapse - many people's company pensions are not a pot of money in their own name, but is actually paid out of an overall pension fund which needs to remain solvent.  There are quite a few UK companies with pension funds that don't have the funds to remain solvent into the long term future if their parent company went bust tomorrow.

There is the PPF pension protection fund to protect that to some extent, but the PPF is effectively underwritten by, you guessed it, the UK taxpayer - mainly those people who are working today.

That's before you even get into the point that as mentioned above, a pretty high portion of UK people, over the course of their entire lives, will not be net contributors to the ecomomy - if you add up everything they earned, and everything they consumed, over their whole life, they will have taken more than they put in.  Generally you have to be earning quite a bit in salary for many years before you will truly be a net contributor - especially if you have health problems later in life that require medical treatments which cost 6 figure sums to give out.

I wouldn't suggest that pensioner should be grateful to those working necessarily, but I would caution against the belief that nothing that they do to damage the economy or cause high earners to move away would impact on them.

[srb7677]

Well Cromwell, my own entitlement to a state pension begins in less than 12 years, though if I am able and feel up to it I will probably continue working part time.

But I will not pretend that I have paid for that pension in advance. What I will have paid for is an entirlement to it, but will know that it is current taxpayers who are paying for it. It is silly to pretend otherwise.

And this is not a criticism. Throughout their entire working lives, current pensioners before retirement were slaving away and paying the pensions of earlier pensioners. Now it is their turn. In due course it will be mine.

But let's not as pensioners present or future pretend that our state pensions are paid by anyone other than current taxpayers. Our own "contributions" were spent on other things as soon as the government got it's hands on them.

[cromwell]

I might well be clear what he is saying, but  in terms of facts the money he paid in was treated as tax income by the governments he helped elect throughout his working life and immediately spent as part of current government expenditure. It was not placed in some mythical pot to be collected later. The state pension has never been funded by previous contributions but by existing taxpayers. Hence working people like me are slaving our arses off and paying our taxes to pay for current pensioners amongst othere things, with the promise that when we retire, future workers will pay for us. That's how it works. Fact!

That's ok Steve but not too far in to the distance you will be drawing your state pension,also you might have a company pension you contributed to and every little helps,but only if that pot hasn't been dipped in to and emptied to buy some fat old entrepreneur his latest yacht,still if you're lucky you might get it in clubcard points.

And there'll you be with a bit more time on your hands possibly on a forum and still proudly saying "for the many not the few" and arguing whether electronic voting is open to fraud and someone younger will say yeah but it's the few slaving our arses off for many living in luxury
so stfu you're not entitled to an opinion.

It's the way of the world,each generation blames the previous one and bigs up what theirs does/did,meanwhile in the subsidised bars,restaurants and tea rooms of Westminster they can drone on safe in the knowledge that they are immune to such nonsense,ermine beckons and the thoughts of nodding off on comfy red benches instead of green.

Same in the boardrooms they'll be enduring no such privations,that's for the plebs to growl and squabble over,happy days eh?

[srb7677]

As T00ts would say, there's my giggle of the day.
You would be right that you are paying my pension if it were a State pension. However, I'm not old enough for that as someone stole my years from me and made the state pension age 66.
When I get mt state pension, I will be as grateful to you as the pensioners were grateful to me when I was earning and paying tax. Now I'm drawing my non state pension and still paying all those taxes that you do.
So I still say, get out and vote to avoid postal voting fraud, or appoint a proxy. We don't want more Peterborough situations, or Tower Hamlets come to that.

A secure online voting method would be good, but it has to be very secure and infallible.

And I still say it is a bit rich for retirees such as yourself with all the time in the world to try and make voting more hassle for those of us working our asses off with much less spare time. I will still vote by post thank you, so tough titty on that one.

[Barry]

So I for one am one of those contributing to the pensions and benefits of others. I don't object but a little gratitude would be nice occasionally instead of trying to dream up ways of making voting or anything else even more hassle for people like me.

As T00ts would say, there's my giggle of the day.
You would be right that you are paying my pension if it were a State pension. However, I'm not old enough for that as someone stole my years from me and made the state pension age 66.
When I get mt state pension, I will be as grateful to you as the pensioners were grateful to me when I was earning and paying tax. Now I'm drawing my non state pension and still paying all those taxes that you do.
So I still say, get out and vote to avoid postal voting fraud, or appoint a proxy. We don't want more Peterborough situations, or Tower Hamlets come to that.

A secure online voting method would be good, but it has to be very secure and infallible.

[Sheepy]

I might well be clear what he is saying, but  in terms of facts the money he paid in was treated as tax income by the governments he helped elect throughout his working life and immediately spent as part of current government expenditure. It was not placed in some mythical pot to be collected later. The state pension has never been funded by previous contributions but by existing taxpayers. Hence working people like me are slaving our arses off and paying our taxes to pay for current pensioners amongst othere things, with the promise that when we retire, future workers will pay for us. That's how it works. Fact!

Was it originally advertised as such?

[srb7677]

You're just being pedantic, it is quite clear that Barry is saying the money he gets now he has already paid in.

I might well be clear what he is saying, but  in terms of facts the money he paid in was treated as tax income by the governments he helped elect throughout his working life and immediately spent as part of current government expenditure. It was not placed in some mythical pot to be collected later. The state pension has never been funded by previous contributions but by existing taxpayers. Hence working people like me are slaving our arses off and paying our taxes to pay for current pensioners amongst othere things, with the promise that when we retire, future workers will pay for us. That's how it works. Fact!

[Nick]

However other than that (for example UK state pension), the pension paid to UK citizens is covered from current budgets each year

You're just being pedantic, it is quite clear that Barry is saying the money he gets now he has already paid in.

[Baff]

This is a common misunderstanding.

If your pension was entirely accrued by money that you paid into a private pension pot in your own name, you can make a case that your pension is entirely yours and all paid for over the decades.

However other than that (for example UK state pension), the pension paid to UK citizens is covered from current budgets each year - there is not a huge pot of cash sitting in the Bank of England with all the pension money for all the people who have paid in.

To put it very clearly, if the economy completely collapsed, there would be no money to pay your pension, so in that sense, he is actually completely correct to say that he is paying your pension.

And knowing this is a ponzi scheme and by no means guarenteed of being available to us when we retire, we provide for our own pensions.

It's perfectly clear to us that you can't be trusted to provide them.
So are you paying for his pension?

Or are you own of the majority of people in this country that pays in less than you take out?
In a country were taxes don't provide enough money to pay for government spending anyway.

We have our own pensions. I advise you to get your own ones too.