PM self isolating

[Sheepy]

Yes I know you have Sheeps at times,still you're ok other than that.

Compared with the WHO I would say I am well grounded.

[cromwell]

I dunno, over active imaginations I guess.

Yes I know you have Sheeps at times,still you're ok other than that.

[Sheepy]

Well T00ts that's forums for you,the earth is flat because someone said so and disagreeing provokes a response

Who said so?

[cromwell]

What rubbish! Just because I don't agree with you? That simply makes me cross.

Well T00ts that's forums for you,the earth is flat because someone said so and disagreeing provokes a response

[Sheepy]

@Sheepy
At least there were no plane crashes in this scenario.

I had one of the greatest GPs who ever lived and I trusted him with everything. He gave me a real reason to do that.
Matt Hancock and Whitty etc. with their worst case scenario graphs don't do the same.
BoJo does even less, now he seems to have handed over to his gf.

Open your minds.

I dunno, over active imaginations I guess.

[Borg Refinery]

Ash get you,actually I do......as good as anyone since hindsight is a great thing......my criticism was mainly around timing.

Oh right, so our C19 statistics in England vs the RoW (other than the US and iirc, Spain at times) were just a walk in the park then, and Bojo is being in no way a utter hypocrite in shaking everyone's hands at hospital and now seof isolating even after he's had the virus.

Just seems daft, I just thought you'd see straight through it as you usually do.

[cromwell]

Notice the question mark and "are you?".

It appeared you were endorsing Toots's point that Bojo has done the best he can. And were saying that it's a newirus and they are still learning what to do..

So do you think Bojo has done a good job then, you seem very quick to defend him here where Barry seems to be making an extremely reasonable point about Bojo's 100% hypocritical conduct.

Ash get you,actually I do......as good as anyone since hindsight is a great thing......my criticism was mainly around timing.

[Borg Refinery]

What,I said all this where?

Notice the question mark and "are you?".

It appeared you were endorsing Toots's point that Bojo has done the best he can. And were saying that it's a newirus and they are still learning what to do..

So do you think Bojo has done a good job then, you seem very quick to defend him here where Barry seems to be making an extremely reasonable point about Bojo's 100% hypocritical conduct.

[cromwell]

So cromwell you're suggesting Bojo really has done the best he can, are you?

A bit disappointed as you're usually more skeptical and don't buy into bs propaganda, what makes you think he's doing so well then?

What,I said all this where?

[Barry]

OK Barry we are both sat in the waiting room of our GP there's a gap between us,Fred comes in and sits in the empty space between us.

As happens occasionally Fred starts talking about his symptoms,I say "look based on what you say you are going to die and very soon.......you jump in, no he's an idiot you're fine if I were you I'd forget this go off to the pub and enjoy your life.

Instead Fred goes in to the see the GP who diplomatically refrains from saying we're both idiots and instead runs through the symptoms, tells Fred the possibilities and orders blood and other tests and an appointment with a specialist and reassures Fred.

Now the GP attended medical school,worked in casualty and gained hospital experience has many years experience as a gp,so who do you listen to?......and its neither me nor you IMO.

@Sheepy
At least there were no plane crashes in this scenario.

I had one of the greatest GPs who ever lived and I trusted him with everything. He gave me a real reason to do that.
Matt Hancock and Whitty etc. with their worst case scenario graphs don't do the same.
BoJo does even less, now he seems to have handed over to his gf.

Open your minds.

[cromwell]

OK Barry we are both sat in the waiting room of our GP there's a gap between us,Fred comes in and sits in the empty space between us.

As happens occasionally Fred starts talking about his symptoms,I say "look based on what you say you are going to die and very soon.......you jump in, no he's an idiot you're fine if I were you I'd forget this go off to the pub and enjoy your life.

Instead Fred goes in to the see the GP who diplomatically refrains from saying we're both idiots and instead runs through the symptoms, tells Fred the possibilities and orders blood and other tests and an appointment with a specialist and reassures Fred.

Now the GP attended medical school,worked in casualty and gained hospital experience has many years experience as a gp,so who do you listen to?......and its neither me nor you IMO.

[Borg Refinery]

So cromwell you're suggesting Bojo really has done the best he can, are you?

A bit disappointed as you're usually more skeptical and don't buy into bs propaganda, what makes you think he's doing so well then?

[Javert]

Well apparently the American vaccine is 95% effective, nobody knows how effective the UK one is. Of if they do, we haven't heard about it.

What this means in actuality is that about 40,000 people were given a does, of which half were given the vaccine, and half were given an inert vaccine (placebo) which does nothing. 

This is a double blind trial, so neither the patients, nor the doctors monitoring the trial, know which patients were given which.

For the Pfizer vaccine, after several months, 97 people from that 40,000 had tested positive for Covid 19.

Of those 97, just over 90% of them were subsequently found to have taken the placebo, and less than 10% the vaccine.

According to Pfizer and their indpendent assessor, this is statistically significant proof that the vaccine provides protection against Covid-19.

The other point to note from this is that no vaccine is 100% effective.  The general layman's view (and I probably thought this before all this news was coming up and I researched it more) is that when you have the vaccine to an virus, you cannot get that virus, period. 

However, with most vaccines there are always a % of people who can still get infected and even get ill even after taking the vaccine, probably due to some quirk of their immune system or whatever.  90% is actually pretty high compared to the flu vaccine which generally only protects to about 40% level.

So the other big myth is that if you have been vaccinated, it's 100% sure that you can't catch covid.

[Sheepy]

Barry to be honest I hardly recognise you anymore. I expect some insanity from a few posters here but not you. No - I still think our Government have done the best with the circumstances presented to them. I blame a lot of the inadequacy on those who have sat on their hands and done a less than a worthwhile job. I blame the medical profession for their lack of preparedness and foresight. Not the guys on the front line but those who sit at the top in their thickly carpeted offices with prime art on the walls, who have admitted that they didn't believe that the virus would get here.

I blame smug incompetence throughout the Whitehall machine. It's not a new failure. It's been evident for decades.

I blame those who are determined with the gift of hindsight, that they could/would have done better. I blame those who are simply unbiddable,  who simply wouldn't be told what to do even though it was for the good of all. I blame a society so hung up on material things in life that they put them before anything else.

We reap what we sow.

I say toots, has little Bo peep lost her sheep?

[Javert]

Either the virus creates durable antibodies or it doesn't.

Well no.  That's exactly the point.  You said it exactly that every human being is different, and each person will have taken a different dose of the virus and have a slightly different immune response. 

Typically the immune response to these type of things will be on some kind of bell curve or distorted bell curve - when someone gets infected, their subsequent protection will last on average some number of months or years, but, it won't be the same for everyone - there will be some people where it is much less, and some much longer. 

The next issue is that because this is a completely new virus, there is the possibility for huge numbers of people to be severely ill at the same time.  With a lot of other viruses, the people who have had them in the last year or two, are protected, so it's not the entire population that are likely to get sick with them every single year.

Then, we don't actually know whether the people who have antibodies and are protected, are fully protected from infection (i.e. they cannot infect another person), or whether a actually they could be spreading the virus whilst being asymptomatic with a second infection.

It's easy to make assumptions and guesses which may well be correct for most people, but you are then staking thousands of lives on being right.