When did you become a Nazi...?

[Borg Refinery]

Candance Owens is obviously from a different political spectrum than Cantdance Balls — though I reckon her views on the Left's interests in fomenting racial tension in order to get the Black vote in the US are valid in the UK too. I cannot understand how any non-white voter can believe myth that the Left, particularly Socialists, has their interests in mind.

Neither can I understand where this, and men in dresses, ties in to the question raised in the thread title....

Isn't your hero Maggie Thatcher & Reagan?

I'm sure they really stood up for 'non-white voters' (as if their interests are exactly the same...(?)..)!

It's a case of the cure being worse than the illness.

[patman post]

Candance Ownes is absolutely trying to say different.

Indeed if she means what she tweets then she regards Harry Styles "wearing what the feck he likes" as a component in the downfall of western society.

But there are traits of masculinity that are toxic, just as their are traits of femininity that are toxic. We should be able to address these toxic aspects and move forward. Dictating what someone should or should not wear because of their sex/gender is not a step forward.

Candance Owens is obviously from a different political spectrum than Cantdance Balls — though I reckon her views on the Left's interests in fomenting racial tension in order to get the Black vote in the US are valid in the UK too. I cannot understand how any non-white voter can believe myth that the Left, particularly Socialists, has their interests in mind.

Neither can I understand where this, and men in dresses, ties in to the question raised in the thread title....

[Borg Refinery]

Going back to (one of) the issue, heres one for you General...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjiqS8gPPB0

Its 7 minutes, but this guy is worth listening to. He's Portland police, and that was where much of the headline "protest" antics happened.

First off, Portland is nuts. It's like liberal insanity central in the USA, so extrapolating what goes on there across the US is unfair - I don't think you were saying the rest of the US is like that - but I'm just pointing this out.

..Same is true in places such as Seattle and San Fran.   

But yes of course you get patronising types in a place like Portland speaking on behalf of others, that's what you expect.

By the way, BLM has been pretty heavily infiltrated by foreign stirrers and foreign troll factories actively trying to stir up race war shit. This is documented fact according to Columbia Uni among others, they shared 'memes' which were drawn up abroad and shared in the US to sow discord. That is another factor missing here. Btw the original head of BLM mysteriously died in 2016.

I feel there are real problems with the way US cops go about things, our cops are much better trained and tend to be fairly compassionate. Theirs are not the same I'm afraid.

You have sheriffs in Arizona proudly talking about shooting people who just look like illegaos, you had a copunion head who I saw - on video - saying that black people subsist in their slums stealing govt 'cheese' (food stamps) and killing his men. That is disgusting - a cop union head?

I watched the new york cop union taking turns to slate the BLM protesters, they looked like they were ready to shoot someone. They were apparently asking for calm and understanding. Is that how the cops in NY appeal for calm, with bulging eyes and a homicidal look? Good grief.

My point is there are lots of factors contributkng to what's going on here. Not too long ago in the USA, you had senators who were proud ex KKK.

FFS, did you see Trump reposting a videof a guy screaming "white power, white power"?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wibk3QsT7-M

Look, I can see BLM are manipulated and sure, clearly white liberal idiots are latching on here, but just because their movement has been hijacked, the pain of black folks and so many others in the US is very raw and real...

There are some home truths, but he's balanced and fair. There are LOTS of black voices speaking out who aren't towing the divisive BLM bandwagon line. Listen to his comments from about 38s about white people telling others who they can and can't speak to and draw your own conclusion. Is this more about white liberal self loathing and prejudice (and perhaps even something more sinister) than it is about Police brutality?

All the above.

Whatever the stupid liberals enflaming the situation do, it doesn't change other facts. No one can tell me police brutality isn't real in the US after some of the horrific things that have occurred over there. I agree the majority of cops are alright, but the people in charge and the cop unions - btw most of all the cop unions seem 100% corrupted.

https://www.google.com/search?q=us+cop+union+corrupt&oq=us+cop+union+corrupt&aqs=chrome..69i57.4589j0j4&client=ms-android-h3g-gb-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#ip=1

Pick your source. The cop unions have too much power and shield the minority of corrupt scum from the weight of the law they're supposed to be enforcing.

We see the same thing in this country from time to time, what happened to that asshole cop who shoved Tpmlinson when he did nothing to anyone? His only crime was being a bit drunk and unaware?

The cop got away with it, and Tomlinson was white - proving that it's not just about race. Both our countries have a problem that's not getting fixed despite all the fuss being made about it!

We need to listen to rational and considered voices, not just strident uni students and the Antifa mob

Maybe not, but while people pour scorn and hate over Antifa both here and abroad, how comes in the past they were the only ones to stand up against national front marchers?

Maybe they have been hijacked by white liberals too I guess, but once upon a time they were fighting real nazi's on the streets in Berlin. Up until very very recently they were still fighting people like the british movement and national front, and the national socialist movement in the US.

I donnt condone their criminal actions, and they expect to have police come after them, but am I meant to condemn them for holding off the nazi gangs from marching through predominantly minority neighbourhoods?

I don't think most of these modern types protestung Trump calling themselves 'Antifa' are Antifa from what I've read, they are Dem party activists bussed in. The Antifa I know of are radical communists and anzrchists who want the end of capitalism?

- you may not like Candace Owens views, but that doesn't mean they aren't perfectly valid to many others, black and white. Can you imagine the uniting effect that a strong, black leader, male or female, whose views were more mainstream, who wasn't trying to alienate the white vote by blaming them for everything, and driving them into the arms of the next Donald Trump or Joe Biden? America could do a lot worse (and probably is) right now than another black President

I like Nikki Haley myself, she'd make the best republican leader. There's speculation she's next, she's Indian btw.

Everyone likes her and she seems intelligent and has a good track record, standing up to Trump too..

There are plenty of others if you look for them, and they aren't just cops or minor conservatives. This guy and others like him are the voices we need to hear more from, instead of like Sampanski pointed out, letting a minority of politicised activists and "trend setters" constantly hijack the debate

The cop's views seem to be embittered by the nutjobs in Portland. I might feel the same way if I were him, but it's not the whole picture..

[DeppityDawg]

Candance Ownes is absolutely trying to say different.

I don't believe that is true, but I must admit that I have not read the entire exchange. Perhaps you'd be kind enough to point to where Candace explicitly said Harry Stiles (or any other bloke) cannot wear what he wishes to?

Indeed if she means what she tweets then she regards Harry Styles "wearing what the feck he likes" as a component in the downfall of western society.

And 'as a component' of that it is a perfectly acceptable view - just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it any less valid. There are many who believe that the current obsession with "gender" and its constant denigration of men, gender reassignment of children and a 3rd wave of destructive "feminism" that has passed way beyond any rational discourse on relations between the sexes, has already done enormous damage to our society. You can disagree with that too, and your disagreement won't change its validity either.

But there are traits of masculinity that are toxic, just as their are traits of femininity that are toxic. We should be able to address these toxic aspects and move forward

Nonsense. There is nothing inherently "toxic" about masculinity, any more than there is anything toxic about femininity. There are men who behave badly, just as there are women who behave badly. But to suggest that masculinity itself is somehow toxic is a dangerous conception invented by feminism that's come about more commonly in the last 10 years or so. Presumably, you don't believe that all Muslims are terrorists or that all Jews are greedy, so I'll assume you don't believe all men are "toxic" either. As for "toxic femininity", that is not a term I have seen argued anywhere in the media or shared among feminists themselves.

Dictating what someone should or should not wear because of their sex/gender is not a step forward.

As I said, I don't believe anyone is. And by the same token, fawning, browbeating or encouraging young men (and society at larger) to believe they are somehow incomplete unless they paint their nails and wear a dress not a step forward.

Its only fair to point out that this subject strays far into the realm of our very identity and of deeply held beliefs for very many. I will also point out that liberals and uni students are not the only ones who can be offended. I've already observed in the past conversations you have freely with christian's, that you'd be unwilling to have with members of other religions. If you insult my values Nalaar, as your comments about "toxic masculinity" come close to, then be prepared for a robust response.

The days of us rolling over and accepting this shite are over.

[johnofgwent]

It is absolutely unclear to me why either 'side' care about a man wearing a dress.

To the 'lefty/liberal' types it should be absolutely unremarkable what an individual wants to wear.
To the 'righty/conservative' types it should be absolutely unremarkable what an individual wants to wear.

I suppose it depends what reaction they are trying to provoke. It also depends I suppose on where they are when they try to wear it. Royal Ascot, Wimbledon Members areas, and other such come to mind.

[johnofgwent]

Dunno. I think the best idea will be for us to wait until Tommy gets over the Scotland v Israel match and ask him

THAT discussion I would pay to watch.

From a distance
In regard to the imagery, I note from the Court Etiquette documents provided tactfully to those invited to a Buck House Garden Party that it is the right of any British Subject (and that phrase should give you an inlking of you how OLD the document was) regardless of scottish lineage to wear, in place of formal morning attire, the Royal Stewart Tartan, or for evening functions in place of formal evening wear, the Evening Stewart tartan.
I have pointed this out to Jen and Ollie should they be insane enough to require formal attire at the wedding when they finally get round to it

[Nalaar]

Harry Stiles can wear what the feck he likes, and no one is trying to say different

Candance Ownes is absolutely trying to say different.

Indeed if she means what she tweets then she regards Harry Styles "wearing what the feck he likes" as a component in the downfall of western society.

Its not the wearing of a dress that is an issue - its the attempt to reset social standards of what is "normal" by associated uses of words like "toxic masculinity" to suggest that traditional notions of masculinity are somehow "bad". That is the issue.

But there are traits of masculinity that are toxic, just as their are traits of femininity that are toxic. We should be able to address these toxic aspects and move forward. Dictating what someone should or should not wear because of their sex/gender is not a step forward.

[DeppityDawg]

It is absolutely unclear to me why either 'side' care about a man wearing a dress.

To the 'lefty/liberal' types it should be absolutely unremarkable what an individual wants to wear.
To the 'righty/conservative' types it should be absolutely unremarkable what an individual wants to wear.

Its perhaps my fault for not supplying a link, but the point is not about whether a guy wearing a dress is remarkable or not (it clearly is since lots of people "remarked", and it was those remarks that caused the storm on twitter). Neither is it about the choice. Harry Stiles can wear what the feck he likes, and no one is trying to say different

The "remark" that caused the liberal meltdown was that it was not "normal". Since the vast majority of men don't wear a nice frock, then it is demonstrably not "normal", hence the comment I highlighted from a guy saying Candaces comment being self evident

And this is the part that pisses most people off. No one is saying you cannot wear a frock if thats what you want to do. Its when they pretend that this is somehow "normal", or that men all need to wear frocks to "get in touch with our feminine side" that it becomes something to unload on others, not a statement of individuality. The vast majority of men are comfortable with the way we are, and don't feel the need to seek attention by wearing a dress.

Its not the wearing of a dress that is an issue - its the attempt to reset social standards of what is "normal" by associated uses of words like "toxic masculinity" to suggest that traditional notions of masculinity are somehow "bad". That is the issue.

[Barry]

This movement against standards of a few decades ago has had the lyrics of the Pogues song banned recently.

I'm not sure why the media want to treat us as if we are children, when we are adults capable of making our own life judgements and moral decisions.

You're a bum, you're a punk
You're an old slut on junk
Lying there almost dead on a drip in that bed
You scumbag, you maggot
You cheap, lousy faggot
Happy Christmas, your arse
I pray God it's our last

Still singing, "Galway Bay"
And the bells are ringing out
For Christmas Day

[Borchester]

It is absolutely unclear to me why either 'side' care about a man wearing a dress.

Dunno. I think the best idea will be for us to wait until Tommy gets over the Scotland v Israel match and ask him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnG1oUkWBa8

[Nalaar]

It is absolutely unclear to me why either 'side' care about a man wearing a dress.

To the 'lefty/liberal' types it should be absolutely unremarkable what an individual wants to wear.
To the 'righty/conservative' types it should be absolutely unremarkable what an individual wants to wear.

[Borchester]

Going back to (one of) the issue, heres one for you General...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjiqS8gPPB0

Its 7 minutes, but this guy is worth listening to. He's Portland police, and that was where much of the headline "protest" antics happened. There are some home truths, but he's balanced and fair. There are LOTS of black voices speaking out who aren't towing the divisive BLM bandwagon line. Listen to his comments from about 38s about white people telling others who they can and can't speak to and draw your own conclusion. Is this more about white liberal self loathing and prejudice (and perhaps even something more sinister) than it is about Police brutality?

We need to listen to rational and considered voices, not just strident uni students and the Antifa mob - you may not like Candace Owens views, but that doesn't mean they aren't perfectly valid to many others, black and white. Can you imagine the uniting effect that a strong, black leader, male or female, whose views were more mainstream, who wasn't trying to alienate the white vote by blaming them for everything, and driving them into the arms of the next Donald Trump or Joe Biden? America could do a lot worse (and probably is) right now than another black President

There are plenty of others if you look for them, and they aren't just cops or minor conservatives. This guy and others like him are the voices we need to hear more from, instead of like Sampanski pointed out, letting a minority of politicised activists and "trend setters" constantly hijack the debate

It is the Yanks problem. As said before, Trump was good on the economy and keeping the US out of foreign wars, but he had the manners of a pig and that was the bit that upset the voters.

It is completely unscientific, but every time I see the BLM running around and threatening to scratch everyone's eyes out, there seem to be a lot of whites and not many blacks. The current campaign seems to be less about black rights and more about giving white folk with third class degrees in grievance studies something to do.

[DeppityDawg]

Going back to (one of) the issue, heres one for you General...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjiqS8gPPB0

Its 7 minutes, but this guy is worth listening to. He's Portland police, and that was where much of the headline "protest" antics happened. There are some home truths, but he's balanced and fair. There are LOTS of black voices speaking out who aren't towing the divisive BLM bandwagon line. Listen to his comments from about 38s about white people telling others who they can and can't speak to and draw your own conclusion. Is this more about white liberal self loathing and prejudice (and perhaps even something more sinister) than it is about Police brutality?

We need to listen to rational and considered voices, not just strident uni students and the Antifa mob - you may not like Candace Owens views, but that doesn't mean they aren't perfectly valid to many others, black and white. Can you imagine the uniting effect that a strong, black leader, male or female, whose views were more mainstream, who wasn't trying to alienate the white vote by blaming them for everything, and driving them into the arms of the next Donald Trump or Joe Biden? America could do a lot worse (and probably is) right now than another black President

There are plenty of others if you look for them, and they aren't just cops or minor conservatives. This guy and others like him are the voices we need to hear more from, instead of like Sampanski pointed out, letting a minority of politicised activists and "trend setters" constantly hijack the debate

[Borg Refinery]

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18873256.county-durham-man-leads-new-party-making-case-northern-independence/

Groan! Now its the "Northern Independence Party"

Ok Rob Roy, you've had the limelight on "indy" for 10 years!! Now its time to step aside...

FREEDOM FOR THE NORTH !!!!

Our lass has just said "fook off ya soothana"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f6U-JFWeSsI

Make the north reet 'ard again liek!

None of this pansy soft soothen bollocks about gannin wearing coats in winter, tshirts only ya's poofters!

Thomas will be next after he's done screaming at tourists ..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iBaaf26CeU8

[Sheepy]

I have three new neighbours, who are all London Neo Liberals who are escaping what they created, one even drives a T2 camper, well some Hastings lass has tempted him away, she is 25 years younger, his wife has moved in a couple of her arty friends though and he still pays the Mortgage out of the money they rent their London flats out they still own. I made that up, I bet I didn't. then one day we were chatting and they asked me why Hastings had stopped voting Labour. So I said, it took a while but people learnt what a bunch of arseholes and born liars they are, so I guess they need an influx of new voters. At which point I took my leave, but they are alright really. Another new one asked me if my motorhome was off grid, so I gave him the tour.
Of course I didn't show him the Swastikas, do you think I am stupid?