A question of efficiency.

[T00ts]

With all due respect, nah, I'm not buying it

Of course you aren't! Don't worry if I am right we will have a chance to confer later. 

[Nick]

Methinks you are clutching at straws.    Seriously though if we study the scriptures - I don't mean just read them - there are so many accounts throughout eons of time where God appeared, where Prophets had visions even of things in these days and then recorded the revelations that they beheld. Those revelations have come true and we have seen them and are living in them now. We can choose to ignore or disbelieve those accounts of course. We can claim that they were ignorant people. We can claim that all the scriptures are a con to keep the masses in order. The excuses are legion. Proof is there, if we are prepared to investigate, that God is the Creator of everything that we have, everything that we so far understand and will continue to grant us knowledge into eternity. The thing we will understand above all, at some point, is that He is omnipotent.

With all due respect, nah, I'm not buying it

[T00ts]

If they came with definitive proof of the non-existence of God then yes.

Methinks you are clutching at straws.    Seriously though if we study the scriptures - I don't mean just read them - there are so many accounts throughout eons of time where God appeared, where Prophets had visions even of things in these days and then recorded the revelations that they beheld. Those revelations have come true and we have seen them and are living in them now. We can choose to ignore or disbelieve those accounts of course. We can claim that they were ignorant people. We can claim that all the scriptures are a con to keep the masses in order. The excuses are legion. Proof is there, if we are prepared to investigate, that God is the Creator of everything that we have, everything that we so far understand and will continue to grant us knowledge into eternity. The thing we will understand above all, at some point, is that He is omnipotent.

[Barry]

If they came with definitive proof of the non-existence of God then yes.

That's a lot of ifs we've had. It's a bit pointless really. Either people believe or they don't. You don't, fine.

[Nick]

No. Why would their opinion trump the Word of God?

If they came with definitive proof of the non-existence of God then yes.

[Barry]

So if we discover Alien life and they come to earth telling us all how the universe was created and that there is no God them would you believe them?

No. Why would their opinion trump the Word of God?

[T00ts]

No, but you can answer my question as a present to me

Ok You are asking me the one thing I simply can't do. I can't deny God. I can only found my belief on my own personal experience and while I know it is unfathomable to so many I just can't do it. I have absolutely no shadow of a doubt.

[Nick]

Why are you going to conjure up a UFO laden with extra-terrestrials for my Christmas present? 

No, but you can answer my question as a present to me

[T00ts]

I think you'd have no choice. Am I right?

Why are you going to conjure up a UFO laden with extra-terrestrials for my Christmas present? 

[Nick]

  What do you think?

I think you'd have no choice. Am I right?

[T00ts]

So if we discover Alien life and they come to earth telling us all how the universe was created and that there is no God them would you believe them?

  What do you think?

[Nick]

Oh no I produced it just for the OP. My view is hopefully completely clear and in some ways I felt the inefficiency of this paper just helped my argument. Scientists have spent centuries proving themselves wrong. They still have some way to go.

So if we discover Alien life and they come to earth telling us all how the universe was created and that there is no God them would you believe them?

[T00ts]

A number of things come out of this, none that back up this article.

Firstly if YOU are using this as a reference to your point of view, it starts off with the Big Bang. I'm not sure that is in your view point.

Secondly the 4 no doubt clever blokes who composed the report are not remotely in any field connected to astronomy. They are pretty much all biologists and do not have any education in planets or the universe.

Thirdly, most astrophysicist put the figure of planets in an inhabitable region around a star (Goldilocks Zone) at around 40 billion. In fact I saw a report some years back by an eminent scientist that out the figure way higher. He calculated the length of time for a civilisation to form, how long it would last, what stage they were at and he said there are likely to be millions of planets at that stage. Based on that I don't give this article much credence.

Oh no I produced it just for the OP. My view is hopefully completely clear and in some ways I felt the inefficiency of this paper just helped my argument. Scientists have spent centuries proving themselves wrong. They still have some way to go.

[johnofgwent]

He also says that the laws of physics that apply here apply everywhere. And the laws of physics state you can neither be outside of something that is infinite nor pass from inside to outside.

Firstly I fully respect anyone's religious beliefs, but I don't think they will ever change mine.

The argument goes like this:

The universe is so amazing it couldn't possibly evolved by chance. Therefore, God is even more amazing so he couldn't possibly have evolved by chance. But all of a sudden there is a u-turn when the answer comes back that He can do anything and has always been here. My answer is the universe is amazing so it equally could have been here for ever.

For me this is where God comes into it, he just fills a void and is the answer to all the unknowns. I'm happy to wait until science solves the riddle, cause they will one day.

I'm not trying to change your (or anyone elses) views. Just handing out the sort of stuff people have chucked at me.

[Nick]

Here you go @Nick

I have just come across this latest Science. Perhaps this is the answer you want.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-9000797/Scientists-say-intelligent-life-planets-exceptionally-rare.html

A number of things come out of this, none that back up this article.

Firstly if YOU are using this as a reference to your point of view, it starts off with the Big Bang. I'm not sure that is in your view point.

Secondly the 4 no doubt clever blokes who composed the report are not remotely in any field connected to astronomy. They are pretty much all biologists and do not have any education in planets or the universe.

Thirdly, most astrophysicist put the figure of planets in an inhabitable region around a star (Goldilocks Zone) at around 40 billion. In fact I saw a report some years back by an eminent scientist that out the figure way higher. He calculated the length of time for a civilisation to form, how long it would last, what stage they were at and he said there are likely to be millions of planets at that stage. Based on that I don't give this article much credence.