Off topic thread (to the tower)

[Borchester]

I trust the government statistics.

I don't trust the assessment system the DWP/JobCentre Plus/DWP contractors.

So, to reiterate Wiggles point, you agree with government statistics when they support your point of view but not when they don't? Which means that you and Wiggles agree with each other and are now best buds.



An excellent start to the new year.

[papasmurf]

So let's get this right. You trust the governments statistics, facts and figures, but you don't trust their ability to asses if someone is genuinely disabled or not.

I trust the government statistics.

I don't trust the assessment system the DWP/JobCentre Plus/DWP contractors.

The government has been using a fatally flawed assessment system since the days of Peter Lilley.

A man called Mansel Aylward designed it when he was working for Unum Provident.

Unum were successfully sued in America in a class action and the judge called them a "A pariah company."



The system  should NEVER been used in the British welfare system, because it as it was designed to do by Mansel Aylward to wrongly find people "fit for work," when they are not.

That is what annoys me about the ill informed bollocks you keep coming out with.

That assessment used is national scandal and it will keep on killing people until it stopped.

[Wiggles]

It proves nothing of the kind the same fatally flawed assessment system is now being used for PIP as well as ESA with thousands of people being wrongly denied benefit. Which is why the appeals success rate is 75%.



https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2019/september/pip-and-esa-appeal-success-rate-now-75-cent">https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news ... ow-75-cent">https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2019/september/pip-and-esa-appeal-success-rate-now-75-cent



https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/tribunal-statistics-quarterly-april-to-june-2019">https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... -june-2019">https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/tribunal-statistics-quarterly-april-to-june-2019

So let's get this right. You trust the governments statistics, facts and figures, but you don't trust their ability to asses if someone is genuinely disabled or not. Papasmurf, you can't have your cake and eat it. People in this country know wen they are on to a good thing. My wife's friend up the road is waiting for her assessment (bad back) and is keeping her fingers crossed she gets classed as disabled, because she can then give up work and have more disposable income. I can't blame her, because in her shoes I would do the same thing.



Right, so you recon the people who make the original assessment don't know what they are doing, but the people in the assessment centres do know what they are doing. Sorry, just don't get that.  As a country we are wasting time and money having an appeals system !

[papasmurf]

With the week I have had, it's nice to have some good news. I think you will agree, the statistic proves there were 101000 people taking the p155, that have now been found out !

It proves nothing of the kind the same fatally flawed assessment system is now being used for PIP as well as ESA with thousands of people being wrongly denied benefit. Which is why the appeals success rate is 75%.



https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2019/september/pip-and-esa-appeal-success-rate-now-75-cent">https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news ... ow-75-cent">https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2019/september/pip-and-esa-appeal-success-rate-now-75-cent



https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/tribunal-statistics-quarterly-april-to-june-2019">https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... -june-2019">https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/tribunal-statistics-quarterly-april-to-june-2019

[Wiggles]

According to a Motability spokesperson:

"As of 1 November 2019, some 101,000 customers have lost their eligibility to the scheme meaning they would have had to return their vehicle after a

With the week I have had, it's nice to have some good news. I think you will agree, the statistic proves there were 101000 people taking the p155, that have now been found out !

[papasmurf]

Your to bloody right I am jealous. I am starting to wonder how to disable myself in order I can get a new BMW.

Frankly I wish you would end up disabled because then you would find out just how difficult it is to get any disability benefits let alone enough to lease a Motability car.



Suggested reading, with embedded links:-



https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/4134-over-100-000-dla-to-pip-claimants-have-lost-their-motability-vehicles">https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/ ... y-vehicles">https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/4134-over-100-000-dla-to-pip-claimants-have-lost-their-motability-vehicles



According to a Motability spokesperson:

"As of 1 November 2019, some 101,000 customers have lost their eligibility to the scheme meaning they would have had to return their vehicle after a DLA-PIP reassessment."



https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/election-2019-100000-people-have-lost-motability-vehicles-through-tory-pip-reforms/">https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/e ... p-reforms/">https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/election-2019-100000-people-have-lost-motability-vehicles-through-tory-pip-reforms/



Election 2019: 100,000 people have lost Motability vehicles through Tory PIP reforms

By John Pring on 28th November 2019

Category: Benefits and Poverty

[Wiggles]

Thought i would bung this on for a laugh for all you brexiters........





https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENj2xKnXsAAw29D?format=jpg&name=900x900">



 ::  :roll:  :hattip

So Blair wanted out of Europe, interesting  

[Wiggles]

FFS LEASED Motability cars HAVE to be replaced after three years the regulations state so. Also disability modifications HAVE to be carried out on new cars due to the regulations.

You are just insanely jealous of a system you have no knowledge of, and obviously prefer to remain in ignorance of.

Your to bloody right I am jealous. I am starting to wonder how to disable myself in order I can get a new BMW. I have had a bad week, my wife's engagement ring of 45 years has just went into the jeweler, who have lost it, and my boiler has just packed in, and needs replacing. I don't know, but am guessing I would probably get a new one care of the tax payer if I had a bad leg

[Barry]

Excellent Thomas, how times change - according to the flow of cash, perhaps.  :dsh:

[Thomas]

Thought i would bung this on for a laugh for all you brexiters........





https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENj2xKnXsAAw29D?format=jpg&name=900x900">



 ::  :roll:  :hattip

[Thomas]

and of course portugal has oneof the lowest costs of living in western europe...



https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Portugal&country2=United+Kingdom">https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/c ... ed+Kingdom">https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Portugal&country2=United+Kingdom

Retiring in Portugal can be very advantageous given the low cost of living, notably the ability to rent or buy a home for relatively cheap.



Portugal is the most reasonably priced country in western Europe and offers a comfortable lifestyle to many expats



Cost of living in Portugal





Earnings may be lower in Portugal than other comparable western European countries, but this is merely a reflection that the cost of living is substantially lower as well. If anything expats can afford a better lifestyle in Portuguese cities than most other cities in the world.



The average net-disposable income per household in Portugal is €18,198 a year. Many of the locals live off €750 a month. As a couple bringing in €2,000–€3,000 a month, you can enjoy an excellent lifestyle in Portugal.

[/b]



https://www.expatica.com/pt/about/basics/the-cost-of-living-in-portugal-1167462/">https://www.expatica.com/pt/about/basic ... l-1167462/">https://www.expatica.com/pt/about/basics/the-cost-of-living-in-portugal-1167462/



i fancy my chances barry living off 300 euroes a month in portugal than 800 euroes a month in the west midlands.

[Thomas]

Hugely misleading.



The Portuguese state pension rates depend on earnings and prior contributions. Portugal's pension rates varying from 30–92%. The minimum contribution-based pension rate is €286.76 per month with 15–20 years of contributions. It increases to €316.45 per month with 20–30 years of contributions. (expatica.com)

In the UK, my state pension, when it kicks in will be over £700 per month or €800 per month.

I know which I'd rather have.

Nice try at spin barry.



The OECD figures are based on what is paid out in each country as a percentage of average earnings , of which the uk languishes at the bottom on only 29%.



Feel free to show us links describing the average state pension payout in each country  , the percentage of average earnings and the average cost of living etc to make a comparison instead of saying i get 800 euros a month and portugal gets 300 euroes so brittannia is the best.



The eu average payout of the 27 member nations is 70% compared to your 29 % , and the only country i can think of that is worse than yours is south africa.

Pensioner poverty



The UK has the worst state pension in the developed world- in 2016 it was only worth 29% of average income. It is striking how much less that is than other countries][/b]



https://www.businessforscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Screen-Shot-2019-05-22-at-09.12.16.png">

Conclusion



The UK state pension fails on every possible metric. It fails to provide older people with dignity, security and the income to live a comfortable life.



From this it can be unequivocally concluded that the UK Government does not value pensioners. It also seems fundamentally unfair to insist that today's young people, facing job difficulties, impossible housing costs and lower pay are to fund the retirements of their parents and grandparents who are already better off than they are, when they almost certainly will not be able to enjoy such benefits.

[/b]



https://www.businessforscotland.com/uk-state-pension-worst-in-developed-world-and-has-the-highest-retirement-age/?doing_wp_cron=1578251306.6773629188537597656250">https://www.businessforscotland.com/uk- ... 7597656250">https://www.businessforscotland.com/uk-state-pension-worst-in-developed-world-and-has-the-highest-retirement-age/?doing_wp_cron=1578251306.6773629188537597656250

[Barry]

As per earlier discussions , the uk has the worst state pension of any nation in the developed world....



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENgRiX0XYAAvPz2?format=jpg&name=small">

Hugely misleading.



The Portuguese state pension rates depend on earnings and prior contributions. Portugal's pension rates varying from 30–92%. The minimum contribution-based pension rate is €286.76 per month with 15–20 years of contributions. It increases to €316.45 per month with 20–30 years of contributions. (expatica.com)

In the UK, my state pension, when it kicks in will be over £700 per month or €800 per month.

I know which I'd rather have.

[Thomas]

We didn't have a second referendum and I never predicted 'remain' would win it,

 ::



What was that you were saying about logical level headed and impartial analysis? ::



Using the quote tags please quote me where i said you did?



Remain didnt win the first one either , you know  , the one you spent 4 years refusing to accept with your logical level headed analysis , and neither did they win four major elections but that didnt stop you trying to claim they won the european elections  last year  , off some dodgy bbc graphic which left the conservatives out as not being a leave party.

I only said nobody knew the majority still wanted to leave.

This was indeed one of the zany things you claimed , and as i said it took 4 elections and a referendum over 4 years for you to be dragged kicking and screaming into accepting reality that the  majority showed you they wanted to leave 5 times in a row.



Even now , you dont accept brexit by your own admission , just that the main route you had to stopping it is gone.



.....and you mock me as being "impartial"?



If there is a more anti democratic and biased individual than you on any forum i have frequented over the years i have yet to meet them.

We still don't really know that.

Well we  do  by any current standard of  western democratic measurement that we can use .



5 nil to brexiters over 4 years kind of gives it away quackers .

I predicted a general election last year.

along with another 65 million people and the chattering classes. Hardly a badge of honour is it?

Not in a way that anyone could have predicted though.

Certainly not you quackers.  Apart from trying to claim credit for the obvious , i cant think of one thing you have said to me thats came true.



You have been telling me since 2010 on the old forum the snp honeymoon period is over , and scotland is going back to voting labour . :roll:



While of course the snp will indeed lose power one day , it wont be through any magical insight of yours , just the law of  political averages.

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

you are too kind quackers.



unfortunately i dont have anything to offer in return , with your piss poor record of referendum and election predictions and navel gazing . ::

We didn't have a second referendum and I never predicted 'remain' would win it, I only said nobody knew the majority still wanted to leave.  We still don't really know that.  What we do know is that the general election returned a government that supports Brexit and so that's what's now determined the future.  I predicted a general election last year.  I thought it would have been earlier, when Theresa May was still PM.  I also said Boris Johnson wanted to take over as PM because he was unlikely to become PM by election.  However unlikely it seemed, that did happen.  Not in a way that anyone could have predicted though.