Off topic thread (to the tower)

[Thomas]

Because we don't share the same politics, doesn't make me thick.

Please using the quote tags show where i say or imply it does?

Again, this is a perception of the left.

im not "the left".



Margaret Thatcher would be left wing to you. :roll:

I am fully aware that the largest part of the welfare system is paid in pensions, and I am also aware that our pensions are particularly low compared with most other European countries. I am also aware that the majority of people on benefits don't get a fortune, and it's also the minority that cheat the system

so what are you bleating about then?

Like I said on previous posts, my beliefs are formed by my experiences, yes, the experiences you deny exist.

...and once again , prove it.



im not interested in your anecdotal ramblings , save it for the jerk circle down the pub.

 Prior to retirement my wife worked full time with adults who had learning difficulties. She was always annoyed how well they did financially,

ah of course wiggy. People are desperate to have disabled kids so they can live the life of riley off your taxes!!! ::



They only do it to spite you and your wife. :roll:

This is fact, not fiction.

Prove it?



I think you are making it up.

What really worries me is the ageing population. It's a massive financial burden on the country, and instead of addressing the issue, we continue to keep people breathing far to long. Perhaps a subject for another day

LMFAO



We already know your solution dont we wiggy , euthanize all retired people to cut the £111 billion pound ever growing pension bill.....problem solved.



 ::

[Wiggles]

A broken clock is right twice a day they say borkie ,but wrong the other 98% of the time , its no something  though we aspire to own is it?



As far as i can see throughout this thread borkie not one person has disagreed with wiggles over the issue that a small minority of people do indeed play the benefit system.



The discussion is about one thing and one thing only........perspective.



As far as i can see wiggles has lost all perspective on the matter , which is why he is being ridiculed.



If we use the 2017 government figures , then wiggles is indeed correct that welfare bill (£264 billion) is far greater than income tax receipts (£177.07 billion.)



Wiggles perspective on the matter is lost when he goes on to then insinuate this is all being paid out to lazy feckless benefit cheats playing the system.



Thats fine for a bit of back slapping conversation down the golf club bar , but when you use the government figures to put a bit of perspective on the matter , the picture wiggles paints changes dramatically.



Only £2 billion of that £264 billion  , ie 1 % is actually being used on unemployment benefit , while 42% of it  , £111 billion is going on pensions.



The perspective comes when you show that the £111 billion figure is people own pension money being paid back to them that they have contributed to for 40/50 years of their working lives.



The perspective comes when is you took out every other s benefit in the welfare system , the welfare bill will continue to grow every single year as the population ages.



The perspective comes when you show how both labour and tory governments over the decades have spent those peoples pension money , and when it comes to paying them their money back , they turn round and say ooopps sorry we spent it , not to worry , we will tax your grandchildren and their mates to pay your pension that we spent over the years.



The perspective comes when you show wiggles that despite all this , despite all the bragging from the uk government they are the 6th biggest economy (and falling long term) in the world , they pay the worst state pension in the 36 nation OECD.



Thats part of the perspective wiggles has completely lost.



As we know wiggy isnt the sharpest tool in the box. This discussion reminds me of an old analogy  i read somewhere........it went something like there is 10 biscuits on the table.



The government comes in and takes 8 of them , gives 1 to wiggles , and divides the last one up between  ten benefit claimants.



As the government leaves the room , he nudges wiggles , and say "those benefit claimants are stealing your biscuit" .



Wiggles , not being the brightest  , storms off down the golf club and rants at the bar about the benefit claimants stealing his biscuit while the government laughs at him.



That borkie is putting a wee bit of context and perspective on the matter.

Because we don't share the same politics, doesn't make me thick. Again, this is a perception of the left. If you don't think as they do, you must be stupid.  I am fully aware that the largest part of the welfare system is paid in pensions, and I am also aware that our pensions are particularly low compared with most other European countries. I am also aware that the majority of people on benefits don't get a fortune, and it's also the minority that cheat the system. Like I said on previous posts, my beliefs are formed by my experiences, yes, the experiences you deny exist. I have met numerous amounts of people with some form of disability, and everyone I have met does very well for themselves. Prior to retirement my wife worked full time with adults who had learning difficulties. She was always annoyed how well they did financially, and had to spend some time arranging foreign holidays for them in order they could get their savings below a certain threshold. This is fact, not fiction. The government, and to a lesser degree, society, appear to feel guilty about people having disabilities, and to ease their guilt they throw money at them as if it were going out of fashion. Like I said, we all need to be mobile, but it's only the disabled who are given money to be so.



What really worries me is the ageing population. It's a massive financial burden on the country, and instead of addressing the issue, we continue to keep people breathing far to long. Perhaps a subject for another day

[Thomas]

 undemocratoc despotism ...

talking of which john whats your take on BRINO at the end of the month?



Barry assures me he has blind faith in the tories to take the uk out of the eu (eventually , just not soon) whats your take?



Are you happy to be a rule taker and bill payer without a say?



Or did brexit mean more to you?



Im sure we are going to have a laugh with the forum tories over the coming year about  this.

[Thomas]

The mathematical incompetence shown here is huge. Beelbebub will be along shortly to put this right. Even Borchester might take a stab at it.  ::

I hope you will run your eye over the conservative parties brexit policy over the coming year barry , otherwise you might find yourself getting stitched up with a BRINO.



You seem very silent over the conservative announcement that the uk "leaves" the eu on january the 31st this year. I thought you might have been all over it ?

[papasmurf]

What hacks me off is the bullshine written on the forum about the cost of benefits when what each benefit is costing, how many people are on each benefit, and how long they have been on it are published in depth and detail on a regular basis here:-



https://www.gov.uk/search/all?level_one_taxon=dded88e2-f92e-424f-b73e-6ad24a839c51&content_purpose_supergroup%5B%5D=research_and_statistics&organisations%5B%5D=department-for-work-pensions&order=updated-newest">https://www.gov.uk/search/all?level_one ... ted-newest">https://www.gov.uk/search/all?level_one_taxon=dded88e2-f92e-424f-b73e-6ad24a839c51&content_purpose_supergroup%5B%5D=research_and_statistics&organisations%5B%5D=department-for-work-pensions&order=updated-newest

[Thomas]

The mathematical incompetence shown here is huge. Beelbebub will be along shortly to put this right. Even Borchester might take a stab at it.  ::

its saturday morning and im hung over barry.



 :-?  ::

[Barry]

A broken clock is right twice a day they say borkie ,but wrong the other 98% of the time , its no something  though we aspire to own is it?

 

The mathematical incompetence shown here is huge. Beelbebub will be along shortly to put this right. Even Borchester might take a stab at it.  ::

[Thomas]

So to some extent Wiggles is right.

A broken clock is right twice a day they say borkie ,but wrong the other 98% of the time , its no something  though we aspire to own is it?



As far as i can see throughout this thread borkie not one person has disagreed with wiggles over the issue that a small minority of people do indeed play the benefit system.



The discussion is about one thing and one thing only........perspective.



As far as i can see wiggles has lost all perspective on the matter , which is why he is being ridiculed.



If we use the 2017 government figures , then wiggles is indeed correct that welfare bill (£264 billion) is far greater than income tax receipts (£177.07 billion.)



Wiggles perspective on the matter is lost when he goes on to then insinuate this is all being paid out to lazy feckless benefit cheats playing the system.



Thats fine for a bit of back slapping conversation down the golf club bar , but when you use the government figures to put a bit of perspective on the matter , the picture wiggles paints changes dramatically.



Only £2 billion of that £264 billion  , ie 1 % is actually being used on unemployment benefit , while 42% of it  , £111 billion is going on pensions.



The perspective comes when you show that the £111 billion figure is people own pension money being paid back to them that they have contributed to for 40/50 years of their working lives.



The perspective comes when is you took out every other s benefit in the welfare system , the welfare bill will continue to grow every single year as the population ages.



The perspective comes when you show how both labour and tory governments over the decades have spent those peoples pension money , and when it comes to paying them their money back , they turn round and say ooopps sorry we spent it , not to worry , we will tax your grandchildren and their mates to pay your pension that we spent over the years.



The perspective comes when you show wiggles that despite all this , despite all the bragging from the uk government they are the 6th biggest economy (and falling long term) in the world , they pay the worst state pension in the 36 nation OECD.



Thats part of the perspective wiggles has completely lost.



As we know wiggy isnt the sharpest tool in the box. This discussion reminds me of an old analogy  i read somewhere........it went something like there is 10 biscuits on the table.



The government comes in and takes 8 of them , gives 1 to wiggles , and divides the last one up between  ten benefit claimants.



As the government leaves the room , he nudges wiggles , and say "those benefit claimants are stealing your biscuit" .



Wiggles , not being the brightest  , storms off down the golf club and rants at the bar about the benefit claimants stealing his biscuit while the government laughs at him.



That borkie is putting a wee bit of context and perspective on the matter.

[Wiggles]

(b) it is no wonder that the DHSS can afford to buy Pappy a new motor bike and give him the fare to his French holiday home.

     

[papasmurf]

Of course you would Pappy. As I said earlier, you are a born grass who is eaten up with hatred of those who have done something with their lives.

Bollocks. That is just a blatant personal attack with no foundation.

I have no qualms at all about reporting a benefit fraud when and only when I am sure of the facts. (That can take months.)

As for reporting unexplained wealth, I have as yet, several  years on after being asked to do so, (as were all neighbourhood watch,) never seen anyone showing signs of it.

[Borchester]

I would report anyone to the police for unexplained wealth, IF I ever saw it.

Of course you would Pappy. As I said earlier, you are a born grass who is eaten up with hatred of those who have done something with their lives.

[papasmurf]

Of course you would Pappy. Some folk are born grasses and the rest of us think well, sod it, even if they cancel all benefit payments it is a racing certainty that we would not see any of it back.



In the wastelands of Cornish hysteria there is a belief that government has infinite resources and can pursue benefit fraudsters to the ends of the earth for turning up at the Brew with an Irish ha'penny in their pockets. In the much of the rest of the country the general feeling is that as long as the stealing is kept within reasonable limits and is done discretely, no one really gives a toss.

I would report anyone to the police for unexplained wealth, IF I ever saw it.

I have reported people for benefit fraud, but not until I am VERY clear of the facts. I don't do so anonymously I am upfront about it.

I have thus far 100% track record of being right.

Unlike the anonymous, shop a benefit cheat hotline with those phoning have a track record of being 90% wrong.



Nothing to do with Cornish hysteria, the disgusting way benefit claimants are treated by the DWP/JobCentre Plus/DWP contractors is nationwide,

You also don't seem to have heard of the claimant commitment.

The DWP does have thousands of benefit fraud investigators. These stats are a bit old:-



https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2017-10-30/110433/">https://www.parliament.uk/business/publ ... 30/110433/">https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2017-10-30/110433/



As at October 2017, DWP employs 6,726 staff who are involved in work relating to benefit fraud. Of these, 2,194 staff are directly involved in the investigation of Benefit Fraud including Criminal, Fraud, Compliance and Local Service investigations. The Full Time Equivalents (FTE) of these figures, based on a 37 hour working week, are 4,045.3 FTE and 1,928.1 FTE respectively.

[Borchester]

Frankly, given how difficult it is, to survive on benefits in the long term, Unless they had all that before they fell on hard times and had to apply for benefit, I would be contacting the police, (as I have been requested to do,) because of unexplained wealth.

Of course you would Pappy. Some folk are born grasses and the rest of us think well, sod it, even if they cancel all benefit payments it is a racing certainty that we would not see any of it back.



In the wastelands of Cornish hysteria there is a belief that government has infinite resources and can pursue benefit fraudsters to the ends of the earth for turning up at the Brew with an Irish ha'penny in their pockets. In the much of the rest of the country the general feeling is that as long as the stealing is kept within reasonable limits and is done discretely, no one really gives a toss.

[papasmurf]

All good stuff Tommy. All I can say is that over the years I have gone into homes and met claimants who have all the details of their benefits laid out in W H Smith's folders, ready for inspection. They had new furniture and TVs and all the rest. Cars not so much but a new motor is not such a status symbol in London. But overall they run their lives on benefits like small, but profitable businesses.

Frankly, given how difficult it is, to survive on benefits in the long term, Unless they had all that before they fell on hard times and had to apply for benefit, I would be contacting the police, (as I have been requested to do,) because of unexplained wealth.

I would also comment it is necessary to have ALL the information requested by the DWP/JobCentre Plus to hand or they will use ANY excuse to delay/deny benefit.

[Borchester]

::



No worries borkie , i keep forgetting you used to work for them .



Just having a giggle wae the wiggle.

All good stuff Tommy. All I can say is that over the years I have gone into homes and met claimants who have all the details of their benefits laid out in W H Smith's folders, ready for inspection. They had new furniture and TVs and all the rest. Cars not so much but a new motor is not such a status symbol in London. But overall they run their lives on benefits like small, but profitable businesses.



On the other hand I have been in homes with nothing in the larder, kids in rags, a pile of bills on the table and the mother nursing the black eye the boyfriend gave her by way of a leaving present.



So to some extent Wiggles is right. You can do well on state benefits if you are prepared to work at it. And you are also right because a lot of folk don't know how and who the fvck would want to anyway?