Off topic thread (to the tower)

[Thomas]

cromwell agrees with me borkie doesnt.....



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[Borchester]

The dead can't sign this petition, which is why Wiggles is so offensive.



https://www.change.org/p/uk-government-and-parliament-we-object-to-iain-duncan-smith-receiving-a-knighthood">https://www.change.org/p/uk-government- ... knighthood">https://www.change.org/p/uk-government-and-parliament-we-object-to-iain-duncan-smith-receiving-a-knighthood

Boris and I would like to wish you a Happy New Year Pappy. Mostly it is because we are thoroughly decent folk, but partly it is because we realise that the geriatric spite of you and those like you are helping to keep the Tories in power.

[Thomas]

In general I agree with Wiggles.

Wiggles isnt really the sharpest tool in the box borkie.



When the government tells green eyed spitefull grasses like wiggles benefit cheats are stealing all his hard earned taxes , and he believes them , im not really surprised.



When someone as long in the tooth as you tells me you agree with him , i am surprised.



Governments telling the not so bright benefit cheats are pilfering them as they( the government) laugh and pick their back pocket is the oldest trick in the book.



The subsidised westminster bar cost them more to run than benefit fraud. :roll:

There are plenty of folk working the system and doing well out of it. Or at least they are in my area.

Good for them , they are merely upholding good conservative values of selfishness and greed.I cannae see the difference between cockney bob doing well out of benefits , and borchester doing well out of helping friends family and acquantencies avoid paying taxes.



Good luck to them all i say.

The point where we differ is that I don't think that it matters.

It doesnt.



I am merely responding to wiggles , who likes to run thread after thread on any forum he slinks around about the fantasy world of benefit thieves the government tells him lurks behind every corner.



On the the other hand though you talk about geography.



No matter where you live or what country you come from , there tends to be a code of honour , even among thieves as they say.



...and that code says you never grass your own .



No body likes a grass.

[papasmurf]

Overall I reckon that Wiggles is right but repulsive and Pappy is wrong but, well, Pappy.

The dead can't sign this petition, which is why Wiggles is so offensive.



https://www.change.org/p/uk-government-and-parliament-we-object-to-iain-duncan-smith-receiving-a-knighthood">https://www.change.org/p/uk-government- ... knighthood">https://www.change.org/p/uk-government-and-parliament-we-object-to-iain-duncan-smith-receiving-a-knighthood

[Borchester]

I agree borkie , i was made redundant three times over a five year period, and then after the final time got up off my arse and started my own wee business , which has been going now for 14 years.



We are all different , and some folk need that help or safety net while others dont.



What im picking up on is the hypocrisy of wiggles comments against the wider background of conservative philosophy in england.



If greed and selfishness is good , why is it only for the rich but not the poor?



Why is it ok for prince charles to receive annually a three quarters of a million pound cheque from the government for the land dartmoor prison is built on( cause some wee french guy once stole land in england centuries ago)but its bad for joe blogs in surrey to receive £1600 a month ?



Why is it ok for you to bump the government and taxman out of thousands of pounds of tax with some creative accounting , but its not ok for joe bloggs to do the same with benefits?



Your argument isnt about leaving affairs in other peoples hands or that socialism is bad , its merely that socialism is good for the rich and bad for the poor which is of course absurd.



As for wiggles , he reminds me of the nosy curtain twitching neighbour too consumed with jealousy and hatred over what his neighbours are getting rather than what he has in his own house.



The community grass , straight on the phone to the polis or the social grassing in some poor bastard out of nothing more than green eyed malicious spite.



Nobody likes a grass , they are lower than a snakes belly , and my auld man used to say , business is business so feckin mind your own.

 Some good points there Tommy.



All I can say is that a lot of this is down to geography. In Pappy's part of the world the mainstay of the local economy appears to be selling tickets to Wiggles to watch the annual Setting Fire To The Trousers Of The Unemployed Festival.They take benefit claims seriously in the West Country. In London no one really gives a crap.  I imagine that in time to come with more and more jobs being taken over by automation, more and more folk will end up on benefits and non jobs and that the attitude of London will prevail.



In general I agree with Wiggles. There are plenty of folk working the system and doing well out of it. Or at least they are in my area. The point where we differ is that I don't think that it matters. We don't spend that much on welfare and even if we did not it is a racing certainty that the money won't come back to to my pocket.



Overall I reckon that Wiggles is right but repulsive and Pappy is wrong but, well, Pappy.

[Thomas]

The point of this story is not that some folk are grafters (I certainly am not) and others are not, but that some of us are happy to leave our affairs in the hands of others and others ain't.

I agree borkie , i was made redundant three times over a five year period, and then after the final time got up off my arse and started my own wee business , which has been going now for 14 years.



We are all different , and some folk need that help or safety net while others dont.



What im picking up on is the hypocrisy of wiggles comments against the wider background of conservative philosophy in england.



If greed and selfishness is good , why is it only for the rich but not the poor?



Why is it ok for prince charles to receive annually a three quarters of a million pound cheque from the government for the land dartmoor prison is built on( cause some wee french guy once stole land in england centuries ago)but its bad for joe blogs in surrey to receive £1600 a month ?



Why is it ok for you to bump the government and taxman out of thousands of pounds of tax with some creative accounting , but its not ok for joe bloggs to do the same with benefits?



Your argument isnt about leaving affairs in other peoples hands or that socialism is bad , its merely that socialism is good for the rich and bad for the poor which is of course absurd.



As for wiggles , he reminds me of the nosy curtain twitching neighbour too consumed with jealousy and hatred over what his neighbours are getting rather than what he has in his own house.



The community grass , straight on the phone to the polis or the social grassing in some poor bastard out of nothing more than green eyed malicious spite.



Nobody likes a grass , they are lower than a snakes belly , and my auld man used to say , business is business so feckin mind your own.

[papasmurf]

It was good fun. Plenty of exercise, cash in hand and endless cups of tea. It was not exactly Memoirs of a window cleaner because after 8 hours running up and down ladders I could barely raise a dirty thought let alone anything else but three out of four isn't bad. So after a few months I decided to sort out my NIC, which in those days was handled by the DHSS. So off I went to the brew where I discovered that a lot of my old workmates were still signing on.

The point being they could not all be window cleaners.

You cannot extrapolate your experience to all. Or to the current national situation.

[Borchester]

Apart from, "The cheque is in the post," my children have rarely taken much notice of me. They are arrogant, self centred buggers and I am proud of them.



Prepare for a bit of Horatio Alger.



Years ago I lost my job, or maybe I should say that the job lost me. We turned up on Monday morning and discovered that the owners had cleared off. They took everything up, up to and including our last month's wages, the office furniture and the contents of the Bernardo's charity box. I tell you, we had real employers in those days.



Anyway, we schlepped over to the DHSS in Neasden and discovered that our ex employers had not paid our NIC in 6 months either. At that time if you did not pay your stamp the DHSS did not have to pay unemployment benefit either, so the lads at the brew really put us through our paces. So after three weeks of running around and getting sod all I borrowed a ladder and a bucket, dug out my second best pair of underpants and set up as a window cleaner.



It was good fun. Plenty of exercise, cash in hand and endless cups of tea. It was not exactly Memoirs of a window cleaner because after 8 hours running up and down ladders I could barely raise a dirty thought let alone anything else but three out of four isn't bad. So after a few months I decided to sort out my NIC, which in those days was handled by the DHSS. So off I went to the brew where I discovered that a lot of my old workmates were still signing on.



The point of this story is not that some folk are grafters (I certainly am not) and others are not, but that some of us are happy to leave our affairs in the hands of others and others ain't.

[Thomas]

Dunno if I have posted this before but if I have it is because I am suffering from senile dementia and accordingly demand a large wedge of state benefits.



Anyway, I know plenty of folk who live off state benefits. Most of them are friends and/or family so while I don't know exactly how much they are getting, they aren't starving. Some have emotional and physical disabilities but they could work if they wanted too, but they don't and probably never will.

I understand what you are saying borkie , but i think you are conflating what wiggy is saying.



Wiggy is trying to conflate all those on state benefits , wether legal or illegal , wether deserved or undeserved , wether you have paid in all your life or not , to a tiny minority who may be fleecing the system.



Theres a difference as im sure your aware.

I would not like their life styles, but they get by.

Neither would i. I hardly think though someone in south east england where my wife is from , getting £1600 top rate benefits and forking out a grand of it on rent ( £1000 per month is the average uk rent/mortgage , even in my wifes home town you would be lucky to rent privately a two bed terrace for less than £600 per month) and being left with £600 - £1000 per month to pay food gas electric not to mention english council tax , water rates etc is living the life of riley on the taxpayer.



As you say i wouldnt want to be existing like that. Thats no a life , and its a far cry from wiggles fantasy story of auld aggie and harry next door in their million quid bungalow driving around in their ferrari holidaying in barbados on carers allowance. ::



As for working if they wanted  to im surprised by you saying that borkie.



Arent you always telling us to be good wee conservatives , feck the state , keep the government out of your back pockets  , greed is good look after number one?



So when family or acquantencies at the bottom end of the ladder take you up on your preaching , become good little tories feck the state out for themselves and greed is good etc , why are you surprised they listened to you?

 If you have ten people on a job then you can reckon two are working their nuts off, six are doing what is expected, one looks amazingly busy but produces sod all and the last is plain skiving. Effectively a fifth of the workforce is collecting an enhanced dole and to my way of thinking it would be cheaper to pay them to sit at home watching whatever they want to watch on their 48" TVs and if they get any ideas of rejoining the workforce, packing them off on holiday to the Costa da Crap.

Well maybe thats why the tories uk economy is the most non productive economy in the western world.



All these folk on shit money , ten of them doing jobs 4 could do on much better pay and conditions , not giving a feck on zero hours , no job security is maybe just part of the reason the french and germans can make in four days what england makes in 6 eh?

So, overall I agree with Wiggles.

I dont . I think wiggles talks shit to be honest borkie.



..but hey , if there is this imaginary horde of benefit cheats out ther , then you should be applauding them for taking up good solid tory values of greed is good , look out for number one and feck society.



Live by the sword , you die by the sword they say.

[Borchester]

You may be right, but in my 41 years of employment I never experienced that.

Then we must agree to differ because in my 63 years of employment I have.

[Wiggles]

All companies monitor activity. The problem is that it is often cheaper to let someone sit in a corner doing sod all than to pay a manager to get a day's work out of him or her.

You may be right, but in my 41 years of employment I never experienced that.

[papasmurf]

All companies monitor activity. The problem is that it is often cheaper to let someone sit in a corner doing sod all than to pay a manager to get a day's work out of him or her.

I worked for a number of employers where if the management had been sacked the productivity would have been a lot higher.

[Borchester]

Depends on the employer. Agreed, some may get away with murder, but most companies now monitor productivity.

All companies monitor activity. The problem is that it is often cheaper to let someone sit in a corner doing sod all than to pay a manager to get a day's work out of him or her.

[Wiggles]

Dunno if I have posted this before but if I have it is because I am suffering from senile dementia and accordingly demand a large wedge of state benefits.



Anyway, I know plenty of folk who live off state benefits. Most of them are friends and/or family so while I don't know exactly how much they are getting, they aren't starving. Some have emotional and physical disabilities but they could work if they wanted too, but they don't and probably never will.



I would not like their life styles, but they get by. But that rather misses the point. If you have ten people on a job then you can reckon two are working their nuts off, six are doing what is expected, one looks amazingly busy but produces sod all and the last is plain skiving. Effectively a fifth of the workforce is collecting an enhanced dole and to my way of thinking it would be cheaper to pay them to sit at home watching whatever they want to watch on their 48" TVs and if they get any ideas of rejoining the workforce, packing them off on holiday to the Costa da Crap.



So, overall I agree with Wiggles. I just don't think it matters.

Depends on the employer. Agreed, some may get away with murder, but most companies now monitor productivity.

[Borchester]

Dunno if I have posted this before but if I have it is because I am suffering from senile dementia and accordingly demand a large wedge of state benefits.



Anyway, I know plenty of folk who live off state benefits. Most of them are friends and/or family so while I don't know exactly how much they are getting, they aren't starving. Some have emotional and physical disabilities but they could work if they wanted too, but they don't and probably never will.



I would not like their life styles, but they get by. But that rather misses the point. If you have ten people on a job then you can reckon two are working their nuts off, six are doing what is expected, one looks amazingly busy but produces sod all and the last is plain skiving. Effectively a fifth of the workforce is collecting an enhanced dole and to my way of thinking it would be cheaper to pay them to sit at home watching whatever they want to watch on their 48" TVs and if they get any ideas of rejoining the workforce, packing them off on holiday to the Costa da Crap.



So, overall I agree with Wiggles. I just don't think it matters.