Daniel Dumbrill discuses the Politics of Fear

[Borg Refinery]

All nations are constantly fighting each other on all fronts; smart people bow down to none of them and see pro's and con's in all of them, and certainly don't support any of them. I know that's hard for some people to get because they turn things into a " you are either for or against x and there is no inbetween" but I'm afraid there is an inbetween, you can be critical of almost anything without hating it per se. And see the plusses at the same time.

All I'm suggesting is that China does have huge flaws and has an extremely totalitarian system of government, but things aren't so much better in the west , we have incredibly hypocritical politicians that blame everything on China where it's their own fault, if you move your manufacturing base over to China and then vilify them, what do you expect to happen? You get your cheap goods off the back of suicide net jumping Chinese folk who aren't paid enough, that in itself is disgusting and is a blight on both the west and on China for allowing it to continue . The worst part is that they actually pretend to do something about it, with tokenistic gestures then immediately revert back to form. That's terrible.

In a way, China has just hacked Capitalism and reorientated it to their benefit. Why not? THe West did the same thing for a long time, we created protectionist economies where we looted others and removed all their wealth. Our country acted appallingly towards the Chinese in the past. I'm suggesting that China is just getting back on top - from memory, in 1750 it was the world's top exporter. It was through the brutal campaigns by successive close nations and far off nations trying to utterly destroy them that they fell off - they have always been one of the most successful countries in the world, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Personally, it would be nice to see a multipolar world where no one country is too powerful, you need several superpower blocs balancing each other out, I Don't want to see Russia or China or the USA rise and destroy the others, I want to see all the superpowers holding each other to account, but preferably not with nukes pointed at each other.

It would be nice to see China and the West decoupling - this benefits all our economies mutually - we don't want to rely on each other as we treat each other with incredible suspicion. It would be nice to see China and America both standing on their own two feet rather than being reliant on and yet hating each other. I don't really wish either nation any 'ill'. China has been FORCED to reorientate itsself towards its own internal consumers and its own economy, that's a good thing, that's an unintended side effect of Trump's trade war policies towards China. And the USA should be doing the same thing, they should disentangle themselves.

[Sampanviking]

Oh come on, even The Times carried reports of what happened if they sent reporters to Wuhan.

Sadly I have no idea of the story to which you allude. I do know that no reporters apart from local media were allowed to operate in Wuhan during the Lockdown, because it was - well - in Lockdown. The country as a whole is operating very strict restrictions and Quarantines from anyone trying to get in from abroad which is due to the vast majority of cases in China since Spring having been imported.
If they also have reservations about letting idiots from the Western MSM run around to ply their totally lack of objectivity trade, I cant say I blame them. All the more if from the Murdoch stable where big boss has had a downer on the country, ever since he lost his hot Chinese Trophy Wife.

[johnofgwent]

Well John the opening part I can give credence too. It it possible albeit one of several possibilities.
Sadly you veer off into Tin Foil Hat La La Land at the end.
The Doctor in question was not detained without access to medical attention, he was called in and given rapped knuckle for loose talk on matters still being examined by the real experts in PRC and WHO. He died on duty after being infected some time later. A number of doctors and nurses in Wuhan died after being infected. A number of Doctors and Nurses in the UK died after being infected. Had any of these been called into a Chinese Police Station?
As to other people seeking the truth being harassed, I would love to see any examples of which you are aware.

Oh come on, even The Times carried reports of what happened if they sent reporters to Wuhan. 

[Sampanviking]

It would not surprise me.

But I've made my opinion on this quite clear for some time.

It is obvious from the scientific journals that a research group was looking into all sorts of nasty bugs and I am quite prepared for the moment to give them the most benevolent of motives for so doing.

It seems to me beyond credibility that with that research going on that this virulent killer 'appeared out of nowhere' as a consequence of dodgy dietary habits. I am personally far more aligned to the reality being a variation of the incident that killed Janet Parker in Birmingham.

The rest of the events are classic state security coverup of a disaster they saw unravel in front of them.

Their antics in arresting and imprisoning without medical attention of the guy who tried to warn the world, until the pox conveniently removed his ability to bear witness, speaks volumes.

The continued harassment of any who try to find out the truth also speaks volumes.

Well John the opening part I can give credence too. It it possible albeit one of several possibilities.
Sadly you veer off into Tin Foil Hat La La Land at the end.
The Doctor in question was not detained without access to medical attention, he was called in and given rapped knuckle for loose talk on matters still being examined by the real experts in PRC and WHO. He died on duty after being infected some time later. A number of doctors and nurses in Wuhan died after being infected. A number of Doctors and Nurses in the UK died after being infected. Had any of these been called into a Chinese Police Station?
As to other people seeking the truth being harassed, I would love to see any examples of which you are aware.

[papasmurf]

It would not surprise me.

But I've made my opinion on this quite clear for some time.

It is obvious from the scientific journals that a research group was looking into all sorts of nasty bugs and I am quite prepared for the moment to give them the most benevolent of motives for so doing.

John, this may be of interest:-

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-019-6776-3

A ten-year China-US laboratory collaboration: improving response to influenza threats in China and the world, 2004–2014

[johnofgwent]

Yes even the viruses march in formation in China and answer the orders of the CCP.

It would not surprise me.

But I've made my opinion on this quite clear for some time.

It is obvious from the scientific journals that a research group was looking into all sorts of nasty bugs and I am quite prepared for the moment to give them the most benevolent of motives for so doing.

It seems to me beyond credibility that with that research going on that this virulent killer 'appeared out of nowhere' as a consequence of dodgy dietary habits. I am personally far more aligned to the reality being a variation of the incident that killed Janet Parker in Birmingham.

The rest of the events are classic state security coverup of a disaster they saw unravel in front of them.

Their antics in arresting and imprisoning without medical attention of the guy who tried to warn the world, until the pox conveniently removed his ability to bear witness, speaks volumes.

The continued harassment of any who try to find out the truth also speaks volumes.

[Sampanviking]

Yes even the viruses march in formation in China and answer the orders of the CCP.

[johnofgwent]

Well, yes ...

But China IS the enemy. Look how they've orchestrated the pox to screw the world.

[Sampanviking]

This is very good and very succinct "Western Politicians are no longer working to deliver you your dreams, but now only work to protect you from nightmares, that they themselves have invented for you"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5ikndBngUs&t=1s