Pride before a fall? I hope not.

[T00ts]

I understand what you are saying toots , but i think you have to accept the situation is this..

Take your chances with covid 19 , or take your chances with this vaccine.

To my mind , i think part of the modern day problem is society has totally and utterly become risk averse in so many ways.

There is an element of risk in anything you do , and if it were me , i would be taking the vaccine offered.

TBH I switch both ways on the subject. I feel partly a civic duty because I am one of the reasons that everyone has been hit so hard, but I would really really like to see more outcomes first. Apart from that I don't drink alcohol and I have heard that the jab is like having a really bad hangover. That could finish me off anyway! 

[Thomas]

I have handled dry ice many times in a theatre situation. It's pretty cold!    From what I understand this vaccine is a first in many ways. I am not a natural risk taker so my reservations may be OTT, but with the claim that this vaccine is a major break through and may well lead to treating other ailments in this different way, I can't help feeling that we should proceed with great care. One size never absolutely fits all as a rule.

I understand what you are saying toots , but i think you have to accept the situation is this..

Take your chances with covid 19 , or take your chances with this vaccine.

To my mind , i think part of the modern day problem is society has totally and utterly become risk averse in so many ways.

There is an element of risk in anything you do , and if it were me , i would be taking the vaccine offered.

[T00ts]

Last theatre we went to (a 2019 panto) spewed dry ice clouds over the stage and stalls. So it can't be that difficult to handle and transport. And The Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel Road has tanks of the stuff opposite A&E...

I have handled dry ice many times in a theatre situation. It's pretty cold!    From what I understand this vaccine is a first in many ways. I am not a natural risk taker so my reservations may be OTT, but with the claim that this vaccine is a major break through and may well lead to treating other ailments in this different way, I can't help feeling that we should proceed with great care. One size never absolutely fits all as a rule.

[papasmurf]

Last theatre we went to (a 2019 panto) spewed dry ice clouds over the stage and stalls. So it can't be that difficult to handle and transport. And The Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel Road has tanks of the stuff opposite A&E...

The vaccine is difficult to handle and transport, the box can only be opened four times before the batch of vaccine has to be dumped.
Do you trust anyone this government is going to contract that out to, because I don't.

[patman post]

I think back to my school days in the science block with three strong acids and three strong alkalis in front of me plus a Bunsen burner, a sink and a now old fashioned accurate mechanical scales.
At no time were any of us let near dry ice, only the tutor got to use that.

Last theatre we went to (a 2019 panto) spewed dry ice clouds over the stage and stalls. So it can't be that difficult to handle and transport. And The Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel Road has tanks of the stuff opposite A&E...

[Thomas]

It's extraordinary that we are treating the fact that we are prepared to use a vaccine created in Europe,, as if it was some sort of victory for this country.
It's merely a decision taken,  which may be right, or wrong. Have  we really no other way of being first in a truly meaningful way?
So many times throughout this pandemic, Boris, and his cabinet have spouted world class  over various issues, and failed miserably.
We have to believe this thing works, but why would we not have concerns  ? When the government are so in need of an apparent success story, this decision is treated as a matter for national pride.

whats sir keir starmers view on administering the vaccine , or has he abstained good old?

[papasmurf]

I think you're probably right there. I don't fancy the chances of something that has to be kept at such a low temperature being completely effective at remote locations simply thanks to likely fluctuations in transit...

I think back to my school days in the science block with three strong acids and three strong alkalis in front of me plus a Bunsen burner, a sink and a now old fashioned accurate mechanical scales.
At no time were any of us let near dry ice, only the tutor got to use that.

[johnofgwent]

Actually I have been following the development of the all the likely Covid-19 Vaccines closely and in depth.  I am of the opinion the Pfizer one has serious logistical problems in transport  and storage, and is most unlikely to be available without travelling  long distance to get innoculated.
I suspect the  Oxford vaccine will be more likely to be available at my local GP practice before the Pfizer one ever will.

I think you're probably right there. I don't fancy the chances of something that has to be kept at such a low temperature being completely effective at remote locations simply thanks to likely fluctuations in transit...

[johnofgwent]

The main concern is that the long term effects of this vaccine are unknown and being glossed over to allow for early release.
A lesser concern is that the company have been indemnified by the government against civil action.

Putting my lab coat on
No, my main concern is that this bloody thing has a wholly different way of doing what it does at the cellular level, it mucks with messenger RNA in protein synthesis.

[papasmurf]

I'm guessing you donlt actually know how this one works, or you wouldn't be trying to use a history of how it has been done in the past to defend how it will (very differently) be done for this one and the future.

Actually I have been following the development of the all the likely Covid-19 Vaccines closely and in depth.  I am of the opinion the Pfizer one has serious logistical problems in transport  and storage, and is most unlikely to be available without travelling  long distance to get innoculated.
I suspect the  Oxford vaccine will be more likely to be available at my local GP practice before the Pfizer one ever will.

https://www.research.ox.ac.uk/Article/2020-07-19-the-oxford-covid-19-vaccine

[Good old]

It's extraordinary that we are treating the fact that we are prepared to use a vaccine created in Europe,, as if it was some sort of victory for this country.
It's merely a decision taken,  which may be right, or wrong. Have  we really no other way of being first in a truly meaningful way?
So many times throughout this pandemic, Boris, and his cabinet have spouted world class  over various issues, and failed miserably.
We have to believe this thing works, but why would we not have concerns  ? When the government are so in need of an apparent success story, this decision is treated as a matter for national pride.

[Barry]

Evidence?  What previous instances have there been for long term effects of a vaccine, other than saving millions of lives.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/politics/the-news-explained/rna-covid-19-vaccine-side-effects/

What are the RNA Covid-19 vaccine side effects?
As with most medical procedures, medicines and vaccines - nothing is ever guaranteed to be 100% safe.

However, the data so far presented by Pfizer and BioNTech have not demonstrated any huge worries. The Moderna vaccination has also proved safe so far.

Mild side effects, such as aches and fevers have been reported and if there were any dangerous side effects to be aware of, they would have been reported already.

Of course, more side effects could emerge as the Covid vaccine gets distributed on a much larger scale.

As I am sure you are aware, mRNA vaccines are very new and this one has only been developed recently with short trials, so the long term effects are unknown.

[papasmurf]

In 1984/5 I heard a news item that basically covered the parents of a baby apparently healthy who had been reduced to a vegetable by the whooping cough vaccine. It had been administered improperly because the child showed fever contraindications,

Improperly administered is the point, that is a separate issue.

[johnofgwent]

Evidence?  What previous instances have there been for long term effects of a vaccine, other than saving millions of lives.

I'm guessing you donlt actually know how this one works, or you wouldn't be trying to use a history of how it has been done in the past to defend how it will (very differently) be done for this one and the future.
If I said I could inject you with something that would let you piss methamphetamine (or had this added to the flu jab and installed filters on the sewage works just like the ones they fitted to the thames to recover the oestrogens) would you mind ??

[johnofgwent]

So what do we do cheer, dance around with glee and rush to get the vaccine? I think back to other drug disasters that have left people damaged and have concerns as to why we are the first. Are we too headlong? Are other countries right to be  more careful? Or are we simply the early bird catching the worm?

Is the impetus economic?

i reckon the "impetus" is the millions it will make for a few government advisors
In 1984/5 I heard a news item that basically covered the parents of a baby apparently healthy who had been reduced to a vegetable by the whooping cough vaccine. It had been administered improperly because the child showed fever contraindications, the worst possible outcome resulted and the state's response via the health minister was that the parents had signed the consent form and the problems were all their fault and the state was putting two fingers up to their plight.
That story destroyed the whooping cough vaccine program of 1986. I remember a humdinger of an argument between me and some stazi sister in a nurses costume in the royal gwent when they tried to bully me into letting sarah have the same vaccine
In the end I think moira let her have it when i was away on business.
It's not just the possible side issues, it is the desire of the state to avoid responsibility
In the same way as we no longer declare war as that leaves us liable for war reparations and payments to british citizens whose property is destroyed by the conflict, we arrange scenarios to bully the susceptible and their guardians if in the frame to acting without a safeguard