Macron v UK + EU

[cromwell]

Tell me more about this freedom you are happy to sell our prosperity and security for.

Let us assume for a moment that the economic impacts are indeed negative.

What, specifically, can the UK do that it couldn't previously?

Not general "Freeeeedom!"  But actual things.

Ban the live export of animals,there was a thread on here in this section,perhaps you missed it.
https://pol-tics.com/index.php/topic,2412.msg48917.html#new

[BeElBeeBub]

?

None whatsoever, with the provided that they pay for it.

By the way, the quote comes from Toots not me. The board's software appears to be acting silly buggers again. Possibly the management could look into it.

And if the "payment" was access to their waters plus (say) reduced paperwork and tariffs for importing the catch to their market? 

If the UK parliament decided that was a fair "price" would that not be the definition of exercising our sovereignty over our territorial waters?

PS the board dies seem to be a bit glitchy. The text entry seems to freeze for me from time to time and I have to open another tab then switch back to "unstick" it.

[Borchester]

I ask because what is the functional difference between the UK agreeing with (say Russia) some sort of reciprocal deal and agreeing one with France, Germany, Spain and others?

?

None whatsoever, with the provided that they pay for it.

By the way, the quote comes from Toots not me. The board's software appears to be acting silly buggers again. Possibly the management could look into it.

[papasmurf]

I have read or heard somewhere that doctors will need to decide which vaccine is likely to be most appropriate for each patient especially those who are deemed vulnerable. You  may not get the choice.

The Oxford vaccine is likely to be the choice for clinically extremely vulnerable people like myself, for a wide range of reasons.

[T00ts]

The first delivery of the Oxford vaccine will cheer me up it needs no special storage and handling.

I have read or heard somewhere that doctors will need to decide which vaccine is likely to be most appropriate for each patient especially those who are deemed vulnerable. You  may not get the choice.

[papasmurf]

The first delivery of Covid vaccine would be a good start don't you think? But then perhaps as a down and out Europhile you should wait for the EU ok to catch up for your nearest and dearest.

The first delivery of the Oxford vaccine will cheer me up it needs no special storage and handling.

[T00ts]

Tell me more about this freedom you are happy to sell our prosperity and security for.

Let us assume for a moment that the economic impacts are indeed negative.

What, specifically, can the UK do that it couldn't previously?

Not general "Freeeeedom!"  But actual things.

The first delivery of Covid vaccine would be a good start don't you think? But then perhaps as a down and out Europhile you should wait for the EU ok to catch up for your nearest and dearest.

[papasmurf]

You know Pappy, I would like to wish you a merry Christmas and a happy New Year, but I am not entirely sure that you can take that much happiness.

I suspect next year I will have more than enough  schadenfreude than I need.

[BeElBeeBub]

You completely misrepresent my position. I actually don't care who fishes where but I demand the right as a free island nation to have the right to decide who fishes in our waters and how much and -0even who sails there. No matter that the fish wiggle off into other territorial waters or vice versa, they at least are properly free, but I have no doubt that the EU expect to govern any coastal waters via their members, but we are no longer members and we demand those same rights. I have no doubt that France  wants to retain previous quotas or even the option to increase them, but the point is that that is not within France's rights unless we grant it. They are not called territorial waters for nothing.

Great.

Now say as an independent sovereign island nation we decide to let the (say) Algerians fish in our waters would you object to that?

What if we decided to enter a pact with the Russians to allow them to fish in our waters in exchange for our fisher men being able to fish in theirs?

Would that be acceptable or is granting rights to others to fish in our waters (or maybe some other thing we might wish from them) not something a sovereign independent island nation is able to do?

I ask because what is the functional difference between the UK agreeing with (say Russia) some sort of reciprocal deal and agreeing one with France, Germany, Spain and others?

[patman post]

Probably not. The UK may well end up with its arse out of its trousers, but we knew that. The difference is that the Brexiters (and I suspect quite a few Remainers) have accepted that is the price of freedom. You, on the other hand, would sacrifice your country for a tin of mackerel.

Strange example as it's fish that Brexiteers seem to be wanting to hang on to.
It also appears a delusion to believe self-harmers are rational enough to actually understand the probable outcomes of what they campaigned for...

[BeElBeeBub]

Probably not. The UK may well end up with its arse out of its trousers, but we knew that. The difference is that the Brexiters (and I suspect quite a few Remainers) have accepted that is the price of freedom. You, on the other hand, would sacrifice your country for a tin of mackerel.

Tell me more about this freedom you are happy to sell our prosperity and security for.

Let us assume for a moment that the economic impacts are indeed negative.

What, specifically, can the UK do that it couldn't previously?

Not general "Freeeeedom!"  But actual things.

[Borchester]

There is no may about it.

You know Pappy, I would like to wish you a merry Christmas and a happy New Year, but I am not entirely sure that you can take that much happiness.

[papasmurf]

The UK may well end up with its arse out of its trousers,

There is no may about it.

[Borchester]

So what are leavers worrying about? Let the chips fall where they may. Global Britain* will prosper right?

Probably not. The UK may well end up with its arse out of its trousers, but we knew that. The difference is that the Brexiters (and I suspect quite a few Remainers) have accepted that is the price of freedom. You, on the other hand, would sacrifice your country for a tin of mackerel.

[T00ts]

Ironic you talk of "standing up to the fishermen" when we are flirting with major economic damage for an industrial sector worth a fraction of a %.

However, there is lots of grandstanding going on (witness the UK sources talking of "going backwards") and undoubtedly the French are far from immune to this.

It does remain the case though that France could very well veto any agreement and leave the UK with "no deal"/"Australia minus deal" on 1 Jan.

Of course we have been told that this outcome is optimum for the UK and any FTA would purely be a pity FTA to help out our distraught European partners who we leave pining for our enormous car and cheese market ki may be being a tad sarcastic).

So what are leavers worrying about? Let the chips fall where they may. Global Britain* will prosper right?

*Some import restrictions apply

You completely misrepresent my position. I actually don't care who fishes where but I demand the right as a free island nation to have the right to decide who fishes in our waters and how much and -0even who sails there. No matter that the fish wiggle off into other territorial waters or vice versa, they at least are properly free, but I have no doubt that the EU expect to govern any coastal waters via their members, but we are no longer members and we demand those same rights. I have no doubt that France  wants to retain previous quotas or even the option to increase them, but the point is that that is not within France's rights unless we grant it. They are not called territorial waters for nothing.