Macron v UK + EU

[Sheepy]

Goldman Sahs arrived yet? you are welcome.

[Thomas]

Gerry, if you are going to pretend to be Irish at least read some thing other than Taxation by Herminie Templeton Kavanagh.

In 2016 On 29 August 2016, after a two-year investigation, Margrethe Vestager of the European Commission announced: "Ireland granted illegal tax benefits to Apple".[1] The Commission ordered Apple to pay €13 billion, plus interest, in unpaid Irish taxes from 2004–14 to the Irish state.

Now little Ms Vestager had been working her asal off to get Apple and all the other multinationals to pay something to someone. Unfortunately, working in the rarefied atmosphere of the EU she did not realise that the Irish would rather have the jobs International Megabucks provided than a few euros in back taxes that would take forever to collect.

But the Dail did and refused to accept the money. Three years later the EU decided that it would rather have the Micks on board than Margrethe's moral tone, agreed and told her to go fly a kite.

The biggest tax dodgers are not Apple or Amazon or any of the rest, but the Irish government

2018 tax academics announced ireland as the worlds biggest tax haven.

Low tax economy
Transition in 1987
Effect of Ireland's Corporate Tax system on Ireland's relative GNI-per-capita to the EU average[51]

Ireland's economic model was transformed from a predominantly agricultural-based economy to a knowledge-based economy, when the EU agreed to waive EU State-aid rules to allow Ireland's 'special rate' of 10% for manufacturing (created in 1980–81 with the EU's agreement),[24] to be extended to the special economic zone called the International Financial Services Centre ("IFSC") in Dublin city centre in 1987.[24][52][53] The transformation was accelerated when Ireland's standard corporate tax rate was reduced from 40% to 12.5% (phased in from 1996 to 2003), in response to the EU's 1996–1998 decision to withdraw the State-aid waiver.[24][54] The passing of the 1997 Taxes and Consolidated Acts laid the legal foundations for the base erosion and profit shifting (BEPS) tools used by U.S. multinationals in Ireland (e.g. the Double Irish, the Capital Allowances for Intangible Assets and the Section 110 SPV), to achieve an effective Irish CT rate, or ETR, of 0–2.5%.[c]

While low CT rates (and evern lower effective tax rates), are a central part of Irish tax policy, non–CT Taxation in the Republic of Ireland is closer to EU–28 and OECD averages.[f][55][56] Ireland's policy is summarised by the OECD's Hierarchy of Taxes pyramid (reproduced in the Department of Finance Tax Strategy Group's 2011 corporate tax policy document).[57] As shown in § Yearly returns (2001–2017), annual Irish CT has been between 10 and 16 percent of annual Total Irish Tax from circa 1994 to 2018.[24] From 2000 to 2014, Ireland's Total Tax-to-GDP ratio was circa 27–30%, versus the OECD average of 33%.[58] However, since Apple's Irish restructuring artificially inflated Ireland's GDP by 34.3% in 2015, Ireland's Tax-to-GDP ratio had fallen to the bottom of the OECD range at under 23%.[58]
Recreation of the OECD "Hierarchy of Taxes" used by Ireland.[57]

In June 2018, tax academics estimated that Ireland was the largest global tax haven, exceeding the combined flows of the entire Caribbean tax haven system.[1] Tax academics have also showed that being a corporate tax haven has been a prosperous economy strategy for Ireland, and most other havens.[59] However, research also showed that the artificial distortion of Ireland's economic data, and GDP in particular, by BEPS flows, led to a large credit bubble during 2003–2007 (due to the mispricing of Ireland's credit by international markets), and an eventual credit–property–banking crisis in 2008–2013 (when Ireland's credit was re-priced).[60]

Ireland's main foreign multinationals are from periods when their home jurisdiction had a "worldwide tax" system (see Table 1), and since the UK switched to a "territorial tax" system in 2009–12, Ireland has been almost exclusively a U.S. corporate–tax haven (see Table 1).[61] In October 2014, The Guardian quoted Bono, the lead singer of Ireland's U2, as saying that "his country's tax policies have "brought our country the only prosperity we've known"".[62] In April 2016, award-winning Irish writer, Fintan O'Toole labeled Ireland's focus on being a U.S. corporate tax haven as the core economic model, as Ireland's OBI, (or "One Big Idea"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_tax_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

you have to laugh borkie at the shite gerry  cascarino comes out with at times.

[Borchester]

You should, all the investment bankers that like swishing money to the caymans and don't like the EU anti fraud rules that are coming. Whats really behind stoking UK nationalism and the empire army soundbites. Your talking trillions flowing through London, its a paltry 266b flowing through Brussels out of all 27 countries, its Mickley mouse money in comparison.

Gerry, if you are going to pretend to be Irish at least read some thing other than Taxation by Herminie Templeton Kavanagh.

In 2016 On 29 August 2016, after a two-year investigation, Margrethe Vestager of the European Commission announced: "Ireland granted illegal tax benefits to Apple".[1] The Commission ordered Apple to pay €13 billion, plus interest, in unpaid Irish taxes from 2004–14 to the Irish state.

Now little Ms Vestager had been working her asal off to get Apple and all the other multinationals to pay something to someone. Unfortunately, working in the rarefied atmosphere of the EU she did not realise that the Irish would rather have the jobs International Megabucks provided than a few euros in back taxes that would take forever to collect.

But the Dail did and refused to accept the money. Three years later the EU decided that it would rather have the Micks on board than Margrethe's moral tone, agreed and told her to go fly a kite.

The biggest tax dodgers are not Apple or Amazon or any of the rest, but the Irish government

[Thomas]

You should, all the investment bankers that like swishing money to the caymans and don't like the EU anti fraud rules that are coming.

What you talking about? How many billions was it the irish government let apple off with , 14 billion euroes ?

[Thomas]

You kid yourself! Just follow the real money.

Toots dont listen to him.


Sure many of the irish are mostly happy with the eu as things stand , but very few want any further integration and erosion of irish sovereignty as a trade off. Further , well know irish economic commentators like david mcwilliams has been arguing for years that membership of the eurozone has  been bad for the irish economy.

All that aside, though , the uk is leaving the eu in just over three and a half weeks , and then there will be a big party.

Johnson knows farage and the brexiters are watching his every move , and if he even thinks about selling out brexit to do some dodgy deal that keeps the uk tied in some way to eu rules , courts etc etc they will be breathing down his neck.

You might be interested in this old article from a few years back about irish euroscepticism , and only yesterday i was talking to an irishman who was telling me the main two parties fianna fail and fine gael in ireland make labour and tories look respectable , such was his hatred of them and muppets like varadkar and the current clown martin.

Eirexit: Could Ireland follow Britain out of the EU?

And among them is another portmanteau word: Eirexit. Until very recently, the very notion of Ireland leaving the EU was so outlandish and marginal that it did not feature in any public discourse in a meaningful way.

But it has now been thrust more into the limelight by a combination of Brexit, the Apple case, fears of an EU stealth attack on Ireland's most sacred cow, corporation tax; and now, the election of Trump.

For major parties and for the Government, the idea does not even begin to feature

Certainly, Eirexit has gained some momentum of late. There is a small but growing band of public figures questioning the basis of Irish EU membership. Some are opposed to any notion of a federal Europe or EU superstate.

Others think Eirexit might turn out to be inevitable if circumstances change. And the public might be with them on this one more than politicians think.

Coughlan had read the memoir of one of the EU architects, Jean Monnet, and was alarmed at his enthusiasm for a supranational and federalist entity.

"To me it seemed undemocratic, taking away sovereignty from countries, the ability to make laws or policy."

Half a century later, Coughlan's opposition to an integrated Europe remains undiminished.

His energy for constant 'No' campaigning has remained undimmed. He was on the No side in the 1972 referendum on accession; and all referendums on the EU since.

He and the late Raymond Crotty took a successful challenge in 1987 that ensured any changes in EU treaties would have to be put to referendum. Now, in retirement, under the banner of the National Platform, he continues to write letters and essays on an almost daily basis.

A recent letter to British Brexit campaigners starts: "All hail to those UK democrats who have made Project Hope prevail over Project Fear."

Coughlan's belief is that the long term goal or the EU is a European federation and superstate. He says the creation of the eurozone was central to this.

"Our supreme folly is having joined the eurozone without the UK doing it," he said. "It was lunacy for us to join

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/eirexit-could-ireland-follow-britain-out-of-the-eu-1.2864539

Dont listen to remaniers like gerry , the eu grass isnt as green in ireland as gerry likes to make out , and further if the uk does make a go of it and a success , i wouldnt be suprised if the whole federalist shite show falls apart in the blink of an eye.

[GerryT]

You kid yourself! Just follow the real money.

You should, all the investment bankers that like swishing money to the caymans and don't like the EU anti fraud rules that are coming. Whats really behind stoking UK nationalism and the empire army soundbites. Your talking trillions flowing through London, its a paltry 266b flowing through Brussels out of all 27 countries, its Mickley mouse money in comparison.

[T00ts]

its not how poor or rich you are, its where you were 10yrs ago to today and where you will be in 10 more yrs. IRL is a great example of where a very very poor country can go by being in the EU. Since leaving the UK has lost 200b, how the UK does over the next 10 yrs will be very telling, so thanks for making yourselves the guinea pigs for the rest of us, big risk though, very hard turning back the clock.

You kid yourself! Just follow the real money.

[GerryT]

I do wish we could stop calling the EU the largest world market. Doesn't anyone realise that it is held up with German money? There are far more poor struggling members than successes. The Euro is a very large problem for the whole of the Eurozone. The Federalists just won't face it.

its not how poor or rich you are, its where you were 10yrs ago to today and where you will be in 10 more yrs. IRL is a great example of where a very very poor country can go by being in the EU. Since leaving the UK has lost 200b, how the UK does over the next 10 yrs will be very telling, so thanks for making yourselves the guinea pigs for the rest of us, big risk though, very hard turning back the clock.

[T00ts]

I do wish we could stop calling the EU the largest world market. Doesn't anyone realise that it is held up with German money? There are far more poor struggling members than successes. The Euro is a very large problem for the whole of the Eurozone. The Federalists just won't face it.

[Thomas]

.I included a literal quite from a fisherman.  I'm sure he doesn't speak for every single one, but he (and others in the article) were keen brexiters who have shifted now the reality is becoming clearer.

As you know fine well , scotland voted remain by a large margin , but it is a well known fact many of scotlands fishermen voted to leave the eu.

Thats because for over forty years it has rankled with scots fishermen the fact ted heath sold scottish fishermen down the riverwhen negotiating the uk entry into the EEC ,and later on the uk government signing up to the  hated common fisheries policy and they have very long memories.

Despite warnings from figures in Scotland and the UK's own Department of Agriculture and Fisheries that agreeing to the Common Fisheries Policy (CFP) would lead to Scotland having a "weaker and less efficient national fleet" and could see Scotland lose over half of its fishing fleet

Scotland controls two thirds of what is at the minute uk territorial waters , and lands 62 % of the fish , and i havent heard of many of them budging one iota on thier stance of leaving the eu. So what are you talking about?

Nothing more than yet more remain whineing about democracy and taking losing with extremely bad grace.

[BeElBeeBub]

Do you circumvent the argument just for the fun of it? It's not the fish we need to rule but our waters? Why on earth would anyone happily give away rights to our territorial waters?

I'm sure you're aware we didn't give away the rights to our territorial water (12 miles). Nor did we give away the rights to our EEZ (200 miles).  We agreed to jointly set the total fishing quotas with the other nations that share the waters.  We also agreed how the share allocated to British boats was to be divided up and, our own, how those quotas could be bought by fishing boats from other countries.

I am so glad you weren't around when the Armada was on the horizon.

irrelevant jingoistic crap.  What does a failed invasion by sea over 400 years ago have to do with fish quotas? Nothing

Macron doesn't care about the French fishermen - only their votes.

whereas Johnson and Farce clearly care deeply for the fishermen. Johnson with his background raised by fishermen and his deep connection with the sea and Farage who cares so much about them his missed 40 out of 41 meetings of the fisheries committee, presumably to help haul nets in or mend sails. 

Pull the other one

Stand back and watch Merkel bring him into line. They have enough other problems within the EU most of which will land on the German coffers without pandering to Macron's vanity. I do believe Macron is close to ending his acting career.

Ah yes, the German car industry is about to kick in Merkel's door and demand Merkel force France to capitulate because they are worried about losing a few car sales to middle managers in the home counties.  Right.

For a nation famous for punctuality and efficiency they seem to be leaving things a bit late.

Besides even if a deal is agreed in the next few days, it won't make a difference to the fishermen.  Sure they may not face tariffs but the paperwork costs will still sink them.

No they arent

The FT article quotes several who are.  Not every fisherman will realise until it smacks them in the face but realisation is dawning for some.

Of course it's too late to avoid it.  It has been since Jan this year.

Not much longer to find out who's right though. Let's hope it's you.

[Thomas]

They are now increasing realising the gravity of that mistake.

No they arent.

We have been hearing the same tired worn out argument (bearing in mind you supported aspects of brexit and have only recently started carping on about how bad it will be simply to attack the tories) since 2016 , and how those who had changed their minds coupled with the silent remain majority were going to stop brexit in its tracks at the next election....and then the next......and  it never happened.

[Sheepy]

They are now increasing realising the gravity of that mistake.

LOL maybe you need another vote then Smurfy, all the others weren't a clear indication.

[papasmurf]

Cornwall voted 56.5% LEAVE.

They are now increasing realising the gravity of that mistake.

[GerryT]

The UK does control its waters, or will do jan 1. These talks are a negotiation, the EU gives x and the UK gives y, the UK wants tariff free access to the largest import market in the world and the EU want to secure the business of a very tiny percent of its population, its fishermen. Either side can say yes or no. Why get upset, its a negotiation, you can walk away if you want, if your fishing industry is that important to the 66million UK people.

As for the uk shipping live animals, if that was so important why didn't the UK ban it 5, 10 or 20 years ago   The EU doesn't have any laws saying you must ship live animals, the EU jointly agree IF AND ONLY IF a EU country wants to ship live animals then there must be a level or standard met.
Whats the UK's position on live animals being shipped to the UK from other countries, I presume that is also now banned. Again the UK could have done that 5, 10 or 20 years ago. You didn't need brexit for that.