The US is getting a little crazier

[johnofgwent]

If enforced I suspect that would have got rid of several Presidents.

And maybe it should have


I recall back when I was working for a part of Hughes Aircraft back in the early 90s there was a sex scandal with a presidential or maybe just a senate candidate and I asked what the big deal was.


I found the answer one co-worker gave, which every one of the Americans there agreed with quite illuminating.


In short, they expected such a man to drop his trousers and enjoy the benefits of the job. They had no issue with his lack of morals on that. It was the fact (as reported) that he had tried to deny it to his wife when she found out that was the problem.


In short they expected a politician to be corrupt and to sexually abuse his staff. But to lie to his wife about it was a step too far.


Which is why when Larry King interviewed the Clinton's on his interactions with the woman before Monica, Hilary was very quick to jump in and say "Bill's told me everything about that and I've forgiven him".


Her exact words.


And Larry positively deflated live on TV. And of course Bill made it to the Oval Office and used his cigar in ways I'm sure the makers never intended. And good god he might have killed Monica through nicotine poisoning ....

[papasmurf]

What, like shagging an intern in the Oval Office ....

If enforced I suspect that would have got rid of several Presidents.

[johnofgwent]

Similar to British military regulations if the Officer In Charge has gone mad they can be removed from duty.

What, like shagging an intern in the Oval Office ....

[cromwell]

That's a near impossible question to answer with any great amount of certainty. As with all things the actual truth involves a variety of reasons.
The biggest simple factor is the information culture we live in. The IT sector , but also the use of the older medium of TV. And it's use of constant news coverage to repeat fact and fiction, it doesn't seem to mind which.
The problem being it has become a perfect storm of equal amounts of fact and fiction dressed as fact.
Possibly the biggest factor I need to mention is the realisation that this country did not conceivably move forward in the last ten years of being led by a party that's only real achievement is to have led us  out of the EU. Doing so in a manner that called our whole democratic system into question at times. Reflections there of a democratic system having its foundation shaken by the executive  to serve a specific purpose. The whole thing has been a massive gamble not yet fully tested by any means and it remains a divisive issue on its own.

Not a bad answer at all particularly the truth and fiction which perhaps deserves a thread of its own.

[Good old]

And the reasons are?

That's a near impossible question to answer with any great amount of certainty. As with all things the actual truth involves a variety of reasons.
The biggest simple factor is the information culture we live in. The IT sector , but also the use of the older medium of TV. And it's use of constant news coverage to repeat fact and fiction, it doesn't seem to mind which.
The problem being it has become a perfect storm of equal amounts of fact and fiction dressed as fact.
Possibly the biggest factor I need to mention is the realisation that this country did not conceivably move forward in the last ten years of being led by a party that's only real achievement is to have led us  out of the EU. Doing so in a manner that called our whole democratic system into question at times. Reflections there of a democratic system having its foundation shaken by the executive  to serve a specific purpose. The whole thing has been a massive gamble not yet fully tested by any means and it remains a divisive issue on its own.

[patman post]

There is a real worry that Trump has put the US on the verge of armed insurrection or a full out civil war.
There have been three recent cases of armed militias — comprising of substantial numbers of supremacists — threatening the state governments in Michigan, Kentucky and Oregon.
The attack on the Capitol in Washington was the latest.
Is it already too late for removing Trump from power to stop further armed conflict...?

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/07/both-sides-worry-doubts-election-integrity-could-spark-violence/5880965002/
https://occupydemocrats.com/2020/12/21/right-wing-extremists-armed-with-ar-15s-invade-oregon-state-legislature-and-clash-with-state-police/
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/fully-armed-rally-goers-enter-kentuckys-capitol-building-with-zero-resistance-946606/
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/armed-michigan-protesters-storm-state-capitol-in-opposition-to-stay-at-home-order

[HDQQ]

I think the rest of your post demonstrates perfectly how f**ked up and polarised the US has become.  A bit like here in fact except we're not allowed guns.

Most people in the USA are probably not that polarised and hold quite moderate views. I suppose the goalposts have shifted so far that the watershed of polarisation is now between those who are pro-Trump and those who are anti-Trump. I would guess now that all Democrats (obviously) and most Republicans are now on the anti-Trump side.

Since someone brought up the comparison . . . Our situation in UK, as I see it, is that the people voted narrowly for a policy that is likely to damage our nation. This happened because a lot of people were conned by misinformation. Nevertheless the policy is now implemented and we have to live with the consequences.

[cromwell]

Lot of people in the U.K. confused by the politics of the Last six years as well Toots, different reasons maybe , but the same degree of division and confusion as to how to proceed.

And the reasons are?

[papasmurf]

A lot of Americans are very confused ...

That is putting it mildly.

[Good old]

The talk is that Mike Pence has virtually done that. The Cabinet in the White House has apparently closed Trump out and are running things on their own, intending to keep things running until Biden moves in while restricting Trump so that he doesn't do something really stupid. However he is still supposed to be rallying over the next few days - Mexico - was it?

I should think they are more than worried at what he might do. He still has the Nuclear Codes but since he can't do anything on his own the military are saying that they will ignore him and the talk is that Biden will forgive them the insubordination.  What a way to run a country, the regrets must be huge from those Republicans who understand politics. Not that that will change how many Republican/Trump voters will feel in the country. They believe that the UK is almost a communist state because we have the NHS, and dread that Biden will head the same way.

A lot of Americans are very confused ...

Lot of people in the U.K. confused by the politics of the Last six years as well Toots, different reasons maybe , but the same degree of division and confusion as to how to proceed.

[T00ts]

The talk is that Mike Pence has virtually done that. The Cabinet in the White House has apparently closed Trump out and are running things on their own, intending to keep things running until Biden moves in while restricting Trump so that he doesn't do something really stupid. However he is still supposed to be rallying over the next few days - Mexico - was it?

I should think they are more than worried at what he might do. He still has the Nuclear Codes but since he can't do anything on his own the military are saying that they will ignore him and the talk is that Biden will forgive them the insubordination.  What a way to run a country, the regrets must be huge from those Republicans who understand politics. Not that that will change how many Republican/Trump voters will feel in the country. They believe that the UK is almost a communist state because we have the NHS, and dread that Biden will head the same way.

A lot of Americans are very confused ...

[papasmurf]

Not being particularly yank oriented, what's the 25th amendment ?

Similar to British military regulations if the Officer In Charge has gone mad they can be removed from duty.

[johnofgwent]

As well as other reasons to do with US national security, Pence needs to go ahead with the 25th Amendment to remove Trump for the sake the Republican Party. If Republicans use the last few days of the administration to neutralise their rogue elephant that could mean the party would recover more rapidly from its catastrophe.

Also Biden could make it clear that anyone, including top military commanders, would be pardoned if they disobeyed Trump's orders.

Not being particularly yank oriented, what's the 25th amendment ?


I think the rest of your post demonstrates perfectly how fucked up and polarised the US has become.  A bit like here in fact except we're not allowed guns.

[HDQQ]

As well as other reasons to do with US national security, Pence needs to go ahead with the 25th Amendment to remove Trump for the sake the Republican Party. If Republicans use the last few days of the administration to neutralise their rogue elephant that could mean the party would recover more rapidly from its catastrophe.

Also Biden could make it clear that anyone, including top military commanders, would be pardoned if they disobeyed Trump's orders.

[patman post]

Little more than a council leader? You mean the one who has been making her own coved regulations whilst aBoris peers over her shoulder and follows suit a few days later.

Perhaps that illustrates the failings of the too-little too-late Johnson administration.

Anyway what's he coming as president or foreign business leader!you seem confused?

Not confused, just recognising that The Donald seems to believe he can select to be whatever he wants to be whenever he wants. On January 19 and 20 (the dates rumoured for his highland fling) he's still President until Biden is sworn in. Or he might choose to be the Trump Enterprises boss. Either way, or neither way, it's unlikely Sturgeon has any legal way of refusing Trump entry — whatever vision that may conjure up...