Some lite reading.

[Thomas]

Well it worked for the Withdrawal agreement, just signed and that's a good deal. Any scrutiny and this trade deal might not get signed. There's no blindfold, the UK Govt elected by the people have been tirelessly working on this and will have done a fine job.
As for Johnson been a Liar, well he is a convicted liar.
No time left, any deal is better than no deal, get it signed and spend the next 100 yrs adjusting it.

gerry.

That sounds like the labour party in englands view , lets get the deal signed support it , get brexit done , and try and move on while adjusting the deal back to a BRINO or full rejoining if they win the next GE.

Im optimistic about 2021 myself politically.

Theres only so long they can keep the chinese sniffles trundling along ,  and more and more im reading hearing and seeing people say why has the paddies in northern ireland been so well looked after , the english and welsh got what they voted for while scotland remains the only part of the current uk to get sweet feck all despite having the highest remain vote?

Theres always time left , dont you worry. No parliament can bind a future parliament .

The yes movement seem particularly optimisitic about johnsons deal which cant be a bad thing.

[papasmurf]

No time left, any deal is better than no deal, get it signed and spend the next 100 yrs adjusting it.

The Treaties of Utrecht are still causing problems hundreds of years later.

[GerryT]

i dont agree with gerry , scrutiny is essential no matter how long it takes.

This is the same gerry who was on here calling johnson a liar and that he was trying to push stuff through westmisnter without ay scrutiny in the past now arguing for signing off agreements blindfold.

Doesnt matter though , any discrepancies in johnsons wee agreement will soon come out in the wash.

Well it worked for the Withdrawal agreement, just signed and that's a good deal. Any scrutiny and this trade deal might not get signed. There's no blindfold, the UK Govt elected by the people have been tirelessly working on this and will have done a fine job.
As for Johnson been a Liar, well he is a convicted liar.
No time left, any deal is better than no deal, get it signed and spend the next 100 yrs adjusting it.

[Thomas]

A vote is a vote Tommy. All the farmers I know (both of them) are happy with the deal. Fishermen always moan and the bankers were always anti Brexit because, well, have you ever been to Stuttgart? It is usually shut.

This is a small deal that will be quietly tinkered with over the coming months and years like all such arrangements. The only people really affected will be politicians who will have to pretend that something important is going to happen.

I doubt it borkie.

The idea johnson can brazen it out and ignore dissenters in such volatile political cirumstances such as brexit and scot indy , with both english remainers and scot/irish nationalists  breathing down his neck ,doesnt stand up to any scrutiny.

In normal times , maybe ,these arent normal times.

[Thomas]

Well there is that. But to paraphrase whoever was running Ulster in the 1920s, "So the IRA is refusing to take its seats? Silly bastards. Still, it means we can run Northern Ireland anyway we like for the next hundred years."

not really sure the  comparison works borkie.

Scotland is somewhere along the lines of where ireland was in the late 19th early twentieth century , where the agitation for home rule and playing by westmisnter politics had similarly bogged down. Then came the crunch , and hard ball playing.

Im not for a minute suggesting things are the same or will go the same  , im simply saying these are all tried worn out and tried tactics by westmisnter to cling on to other nations we are seeing , which in the end results in the  nation leaving the empire.

Northern ireland  isnt comparable because in 1920 , unionists held something like three quarters of the vote and political power. 2020 scotland , according to polls unionism is around 45 % or less in polls , and the snp hold majority of political seats.

The idea isnt to withdraw and do nothing , its to withdraw and do something . I agree though , i think it unlikely , as the snp up till now have been too timid.

The timidity , like the current indy stalemate , as we both know isnt going to last much longer.

Who are the hated tories going to get to do their dirty work in scotland this time now labour are fecked is what interests me? There wont be any repeat of 2014 , where labopur politicians and canvassers fronted the better together network funded by tory money.

You know yourself this current tory strategy of the snp winning landslides while the tories govern scotland from afar and say no to indy  wont last .

[Borchester]

Now when your countries politicians are sitting in a parliament with 82% of mps from another country.

To paraphrase under secretary cooke writing to william pitt in the late 18th century on the eve of the 1801 union ,

"by giving the irish one hundred seats in an assembly of 650 , they will be impotent to operate in that assembly , but it will be invested irish assent to its authority."

Well there is that. But to paraphrase whoever was running Ulster in the 1920s, "So the IRA is refusing to take its seats? Silly bastards. Still, it means we can run Northern Ireland anyway we like for the next hundred years."

[Borchester]

johnsons deal getting a big thumbs up from the yes side for all the wrong reasons for the tories....

A vote is a vote Tommy. All the farmers I know (both of them) are happy with the deal. Fishermen always moan and the bankers were always anti Brexit because, well, have you ever been to Stuttgart? It is usually shut.

This is a small deal that will be quietly tinkered with over the coming months and years like all such arrangements. The only people really affected will be politicians who will have to pretend that something important is going to happen.

[Thomas]

As that great statesman Jed Bartlett once said, decisions are made by those who show up.

Now when your countries politicians are sitting in a parliament with 82% of mps from another country.

To paraphrase under secretary cooke writing to william pitt in the late 18th century on the eve of the 1801 union ,

"by giving the irish one hundred seats in an assembly of 650 , they will be impotent to operate in that assembly , but it will be invested irish assent to its authority."

[Thomas]

Dunno Tommy. I was reading the Herald the other day and while it had a healthy dose of f**k you English bastards, it did seem to suggest that sulking in your tent achieves nothing more than a nine year sulk.

As that great statesman Jed Bartlett once said, decisions are made by those who show up.

im not suggesting , nor is anyone else , sulking in the tent.

We have tried standing in your tent pissing out , it hasnt worked , so better to stand outside and piss in like the irish while moving towards a more pro active approach.

[Borchester]

I think we are fast approaching the time barry , where having snp mps sitting in englands parliament  serves no apparent purpose. They should take a leaf from the irish book , who have the good sense to let england be governed by the english from westmisnter , and withdraw our politicians.

England should get the deal or hard brexit it wants in my opinion , it shouldnt be foisted on scotland .

I think its time now for these silly games to stop , ands the snp to start playing hardball. They are never going to out vote the 82 % of english constituenicy mps , and they have tried and failed now for five years to behave ressonably and act in scotland interests no matter the odds stacked against them.

The scottish public see this , they have seen the abuse thrown at them , and my personal view is coming along to scottish mps sitting in your countries parliament does more harm than good.

No matter how they vote , or abstain , it will be spun as snp bad. Withdraw the mps , and concentrate on scotland from scotlands parliament.

Dunno Tommy. I was reading the Herald the other day and while it had a healthy dose of F@@@ you English bastards, it did seem to suggest that sulking in your tent achieves nothing more than a nine year sulk.

As that great statesman Jed Bartlett once said, decisions are made by those who show up.

[Thomas]

As far as I can see, our fishing quota goes up by 25% for the next five and a half years whereupon we can take the lot should we so desire. No decision is going to be made on the various rules and regulations that govern the financial services industry because they are so complex that no one understands them anyway.

Most of all, neither side has the ability or, more importantly, the desire to punish any transgressions. Our relationship with the EU is about to enter a period of happy fudge.

As far as i can read borkie ,the only section of the scottish economy to support brexit was the fishing industry , and they are already crying foul over johnsons  deal.

he has alienated scotish fisherman and farmers , has the services sector moving to support scottish indy , and if scotland become indy and joinds the eu or efta , ........

It ensures that an independent Scotland which is a member of EFTA or The EEA will be able to trade with The Uk with only the same checks that will now be in place for goods travelling between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. This is an arrangement which Michael Gove has described as the best of both worlds for Northern Ireland. Him and his Conservative pals will now no longer be able to claim that independence will result in Scotland being economically cut off from English markets.

Crucially, the UK cannot treat one part of the European Single Market differently from any other part, otherwise it wouldn't be a single market. This renders toothless any British natuonalist threat that Westminster would seek to punish Scotland economically for daring to seek independence. Thanks to the Tory deal We now have a guarantee that Scotland will not economically suffer from independence, we only stand to gain, and to attain what Michael Gove himself has described as the best of both worlds. Meanwhile vital economic sectors such as finance an services have now been given a very powerful motive to support independence which they did not have before. An independent Scotland would be ideally placed to hoover up the financial sector jobs and investment which is now looking at leaving the UK.

This new deal does not mean that there would have to be passport checks on anyone crossing the Anglo-Scottish border, that scare story can be put to rest too. Ireland remains a member of the Common travel Area, and so could an independent Scotland too. Any checks on commercial traffic between an independent Scotland and England would be the same as those henceforth in place on commercial traffic travelling to Northern Ireland and could be handled in a similar way. There need be no passport checks or controls on individuals crossing the border for private visits. Anyone who insists otherwise is scaremongering, pure and simple

What this deal, which was unwanted by Scotland and in the making of which Scottish interests have not been taken into account, has done, is to massively strengthen the arguments for independence while destroying some of the most important arguments that British nationalists have hitherto deployed against it.

https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2020/12/27/johnsons-deal-puts-rocket-boosters-under-arguments-for-independence/

johnsons deal getting a big thumbs up from the yes side for all the wrong reasons for the tories....

[Borchester]

OK

I read your 34 pages in about ten minutes. That took all of my skill in analysis of research papers written by scientists presenting their research in the best possible light so as to obtain further research funding. I note much that is summarised, and much that is skimmed over. While I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to actually LIE in the summary I trust you accept I feel a little sceptical. Having said that my overwhelming view is that if operated in good faith by both sides then we are getting somewhere. In another thread I pointed to the FIVE YEAR transition period during which the EU will be able to pillage our fishing grounds as they do now, but the reality I suppose is that the United Kingdom government in previous years pushed our fishermen to the point they burned their boats (literally) so it will probably TAKE five years for the UK fishing industry to put itself in a place where they can take full advantage.

34 pages took 10-15 minutes, 1200 will take me about 529 minutes, say ten hours, and requite significant paracetamol intake. I wonlt be doing that today.

PS. running with CHROME. When I write a passage in the editor and delete spaces to bring one sentence back against another your editor chucks random "[SIZE]" tags into my post...

As far as I can see, our fishing quota goes up by 25% for the next five and a half years whereupon we can take the lot should we so desire. No decision is going to be made on the various rules and regulations that govern the financial services industry because they are so complex that no one understands them anyway.

Most of all, neither side has the ability or, more importantly, the desire to punish any transgressions. Our relationship with the EU is about to enter a period of happy fudge.

[Thomas]

I hear the SNP are voting against the deal, so they must want a no deal Brexit!

I think we are fast approaching the time barry , where having snp mps sitting in englands parliament  serves no apparent purpose. They should take a leaf from the irish book , who have the good sense to let england be governed by the english from westmisnter , and withdraw our politicians.

England should get the deal or hard brexit it wants in my opinion , it shouldnt be foisted on scotland .

I think its time now for these silly games to stop , ands the snp to start playing hardball. They are never going to out vote the 82 % of english constituenicy mps , and they have tried and failed now for five years to behave ressonably and act in scotland interests no matter the odds stacked against them.

The scottish public see this , they have seen the abuse thrown at them , and my personal view is coming along to scottish mps sitting in your countries parliament does more harm than good.

No matter how they vote , or abstain , it will be spun as snp bad. Withdraw the mps , and concentrate on scotland from scotlands parliament.

[Thomas]

"we burned some bridges" kinnock says?



talk about an understatement , this is because they are now turning their thoughts to going out and asking english brexiters to vote for them at the next GE and want everyone to forget starmers and labours anti democrtic antics over the last four years.

Every single person in england with half a brain knows fine well out and out pro european starmer and his blairite corporals will have england back in the eu in a flash if they win in the next GE.

LMFAO.

They stood in scotland with the tories and did their dirty work in 2014 , as they did in england post 2016 with brexit , and the scottish voter will never forgive or forget , and i dont imagine the english will either.

If starmer carries on losing labour votes in scotland its quite possible he may just take labout to an all time low never before seen.

Twats like kinnock are labours problem....not labours solution.

[Thomas]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55355628
And some remoaner (and probably Brussel) are now regretted that they put all their bet on the futile effort of overturning the referendum result instead of gave some support to Traitor May's deplorable brexit approach.

In fact, had Brussel made the deal a little bit less obnoxious, Traitor May was very likely got enough vote from remoaners within conservative, Labor and even SNP and locked UK in a BINO.

All I can say, is that I concur with the Italian MEP: God save the Queen

pro european pro british nationalist kinnock bleating about the status quo changing and his inability to force BRINO on the english ?

Who knew?