Indy Dead??

[Nick]

No nick scotland wouldnt take 50% of the uk fishing waters . You have plucked this figure straight out of fresh air.

Scotlands eez is 62% of the current uk waters , England itself only has 31 %.


http://marine.gov.scot/data/facts-and-figures-about-scotlands-sea-area-coastline-length-sea-area-sq-kms

Correct Tom. I looked at the map and guesstimated about 50%. BUT, the point I made was that Scotland would have a massive bargaining chip to join the EU, it wasn't about the number.

[Thomas]

You want to deny reality and scratch around the houses to deny it I'll leave you with.

im not denying any reality. I am accepting i am a scottish national . a british and euorepan citizen.

You in the meanwhile are having great difficulty with the concept of citizensip and nation and nationality.

You tell me europea ( as in eu ) isnt a nation depsite a legal document that tells me i , and you are european citizens , then you try and  foist british citizneship , ( with the insinuation im a britihs national , of the nation britian  ) on me!

You are all over the place cromwell.

Let me help you....nationality is  a personal thing as ive said before , not the playgorund of civil sevants which you insinuated in your original example.

anyone who thinks nations exist and nationality is conferred thorugh a sily feckin bit of paper either needs their head examined or is clearly delusional.

Feck off british.

[cromwell]

It must kill you when i travel the world and people reccognise and accept scotland and the scottish .

Now you're being daft,I don't deny you being a Scot or how people see you as one.

You want to deny reality and scratch around the houses to deny it I'll leave you with.

[Thomas]

Straw man? You originally told me I'm not a British citizen and now say I am (which I knew already)

ok using the quote tag quote where i said you arent a british citizen?

if you cant cromwell  , then you are making up lies.

[cromwell]

Straw man? You originally told me I'm not a British citizen and now say I am (which I knew already)

Afraid it's your argument that's strawman introducing the concept of European citizenship which presently doesn't and never has existed that like Scottish citizenship may change but not for us for the foreseeable.

Of straws afraid you're clutching at them  yours and others arguments were false years ago and remain so if you want to call yourself a Scottish citizen fine but you denied the reality and when I quoted law you went Ah   English law but when I cite Scottish law too that you rubbish too.

[Thomas]

Laugh all you like and refer to Scottish law,

so am i .I have two legal document which refer , under scottish law ,to my scottish nationality.

You have a travel document which refers to "membership in the form of citizenship or whatever" of the british empire and whats left of its overseas dominion .

So what are you talkiing about?

It must kill you when i travel the world and people reccognise and accept scotland and the scottish .

[Thomas]

Before you put forth another empty straw man bwitish argument cromwell , i can be a european ,and british citizen , which i acknowledge , and a scottish national , which you can't contemplate or seem grudgingly unwilling ,becuase of your brit nationalism , to accept.

Then on top of that , your country is taking away my european citizenship , because england voted 55% leave , while scotland voted 62 % remain.

....and you think this is the glue that will hold your "mythical nation britian " together?

England say jump and we say how high?

[Thomas]

Laugh all you like and refer to Scottish law,and I reference you to my link and the Scottish lawyer who for whichever way you want to argue tells you that you aren't a Sottish citizen but are a British citizen in law,this may of course change.

i havent said you or i arent british citizens. You are putting forth a straw man.

You are telling me the definition of nationality is a travel document. Im point out that same travel document tells you  , you are a european citizen , and for four years , if not more  , you have rejected this.

This is a legal argument as well. Legally you are currrently a european citizen , yet for years you have said no , and you reject this.

So im confused.

It seems to be typical british cake and eat it.

[cromwell]

you arent listening to what im saying. Im not saying scots arent british citizens , or dont hold british pasports.

Im saying britihs citizenship , nor british passport holding isnt the marker of being a british national.

Britian isnt a nation. How can you be a national of a nation that doesnt exist?

I was born to the south of the old antonine wall. Does that mean because of history i can apply for an italin passport?

You clearly dont understand the definition of a citizen and a national of a nation. You just spent four years or more telling me you arent a naitonal of the european nation  ,despite Similarly holding a european passport , yet here you are telling me , you , and by default i , and pedro in gribraltar , are nationals of this mythical british nation that deosnt appear on any maps.




You dont have any of the building blocks that define a nation , bar a passport , whic you give out willy nilly to all and sundry no matter where they were born or bloodline. LMFAO.

Scotland has all the defining characteristics that "britian " lacks in terms of nationhood , except one , control from your countries parliament.

We have a national boundary , a  scottish language , legal system ,  church , education system etc etc.

"britian" has a travel document.

Laugh all you like and refer to Scottish law,and I reference you to my link and the Scottish lawyer who for whichever way you want to argue tells you that you aren't a Sottish citizen but are a British citizen in law,this may of course change.

[Thomas]

Well Thomas I refer to English and Sottish law
https://www.mcgillandco.co.uk/blog/how-do-i-become-a-scottish-citizen.html

And I refer you to the point in that blog which says that all Scots are British citizens though it may obviously change so whatever was done to death all those years ago was wrong.

you arent listening to what im saying. Im not saying scots arent british citizens , or dont hold british pasports.

Im saying britihs citizenship , nor british passport holding isnt the marker of being a british national.

Britian isnt a nation. How can you be a national of a nation that doesnt exist?

I was born to the south of the old antonine wall. Does that mean because of history i can apply for an italin passport?

You clearly dont understand the definition of a citizen and a national of a nation. You just spent four years or more telling me you arent a naitonal of the european nation  ,despite Similarly holding a european passport , yet here you are telling me , you , and by default i , and pedro in gribraltar , are nationals of this mythical british nation that deosnt appear on any maps.




You dont have any of the building blocks that define a nation , bar a passport , whic you give out willy nilly to all and sundry no matter where they were born or bloodline. LMFAO.

Scotland has all the defining characteristics that "britian " lacks in terms of nationhood , except one , control from your countries parliament.

We have a national boundary , a  scottish language , legal system ,  church , education system etc etc.

"britian" has a travel document.

[cromwell]

Well Thomas I refer to English and Sottish law
https://www.mcgillandco.co.uk/blog/how-do-i-become-a-scottish-citizen.html

And I refer you to the point in that blog which says that all Scots are British citizens though it may obviously change so whatever was done to death all those years ago was wrong.

[Thomas]

How come from 1st january cromwell scots law will keep aligned with european law , and englandshire wont?



I mean cromwell , britain the nation isnt on a map , doesnt have a legal system , doesnt issue birth or marriage certificates  or common british language , and issues travel documents ten a penny to any old non native who ruks up at sheepies front door.

How come there is a bunch of religous people on here but we never hear them talk about the church of that imaginary nation britain either?

Ah fink you are pulling my leg cromwell.

[Thomas]

I am pushing nothing down your throat,if you win Indyref you'll have your Scots passport won't you.

wether we do or dont , i am still a national of the nation of scotland. The point is bits of paper dont change that.

In any event notwithstanding forum discussions of yore it is they that are irrelevant in law and I quote

scottish or english law?

Even somethig as basic as "law" this imaganiary nation called britian doesnt even have a british legal system. The french have french law etc etc how come the brtish dont have british law? ( how come you dont speak british ? The french speak french , german speka de german?)

Ergo I am a British citizen

sure i covered that earlier. So is someone in gribralter or someone previously in any part of the empire. That would mean they were subjects of the queeen and citizens of an empire , rather than a nation.

[cromwell]

well aye i do cromwell. Toots was being arrogean in her post, typical empire mentality , "we wont allow" and all this cac. Also im not trying to shove my nationality down your throat , you and your ilk are trying to shove british ness down our throats.

Feck yer british passport.

Hopefully i will have a scottish one fairly soon.

I am pushing nothing down your throat,if you win Indyref you'll have your Scots passport won't you.
In any event notwithstanding forum discussions of yore it is they that are irrelevant in law and I quote

What is the difference between British nationality and British citizenship?
Nationality refers to the status of a person as belonging to a state, whereas citizenship refers to the holding of a bundle of civic rights, generally including the right to live and work in the territory of the state concerned. ... British protected person (BPP) British subject. British Overseas citizen (BOC)26 Jul 2016

Ergo I am a British citizen 

[Thomas]

Last thing i will say cromwell , is tht while a travel document is obviously usefull , i would regard the birth certificate , my scottish birth certificate , as more evidence of being a national of a nation.

While a travel document can be handed out to any old tom dick or harry that rocks up at dover on a dinghy , a scottish birth certificate is evidence of the blood that flows through your veins from your parents , and evidence that you were born on scottish ( or english etc) soil.