Indy Dead??

[papasmurf]

Nothing has changed yet but you know it doesn't suit Scotland. Are you going to apply some actual facts to your posts any time soon?

Haven't been watching news and current affairs. Scotland's elected representatives seem to be less than happy with the deal.

[Nick]

I think you should learn to read. Facts abound in my posts.

I can read perfectly well, I'm just having trouble travelling into the future and gauging the mood once the deal is up and running (which you will find is the crux of the OP) . Next time you go let me know and I'll get a lift if that is ok?

[Barry]

I think you should learn to read. Facts abound in my posts.

I think Nick was aiming his comment at Smurfy, Morayloon.

[cromwell]

Well I've never hidden the fact I believe in the UK,in fact many years ago I had an argument with a civil servant who was perusing a form I had filled in who tutted and pushed it back at me along with another blank form telling me to fill it in again because in the nationality box I'd put in British and he said you're English.

I told him to sod off and won in the end on the grounds I had a British passport.

It was George Galloway I think said devolution was a motorway to independence,the Scots had a once in a generation vote and lost but having said all that  one of the cornerstones of the union argument was the eu membership.

On that basis alone they are entitled to another vote,whilst I do support the idea of the U.K. You can't escape that everything in this country has revolved for far too long around London and the south east and the constituent countries and some English regions have been badly neglected and ignored.

[morayloon]

Are you going to apply some actual facts to your posts any time soon?

I think you should learn to read. Facts abound in my posts.

[Nick]

Not according to comment from Scotland.

Nothing has changed yet but you know it doesn't suit Scotland. Are you going to apply some actual facts to your posts any time soon?

[Barry]

Not according to comment from Scotland.

I didn't know Scotland could speak. There are many diverse opinions by Scottish residents. If you refer to one particular opinion, perhaps the First minister, that might be a tad biased.

As I have said, let them have their referendum. Indy2 2021, would settle the issue.

[papasmurf]

Regardless of your Indy state you may find that the deal suits Scotland!!

Not according to comment from Scotland.

[Nick]

Why assume there will be a hard border? Will there be a hard Irish border? I think it was a pawn in Johnson's game just as fishing was. Eire is an EU member state. As such the EU was fighting  for, and on behalf of, its member.

Regardless of your Indy state you may find that the deal suits Scotland!!

[morayloon]

No not at all. There would be a hard border and tho in the Border regions may not be too suited with having to go through to get to Tesco's for example

Why assume there will be a hard border? Will there be a hard Irish border?

I am of course assuming the EU will apply all its none sense in this situation, or was the Irish border just a pawn in their game?

I think it was a pawn in Johnson's game just as fishing was. Eire is an EU member state. As such the EU was fighting  for, and on behalf of, its member.

[Nick]

Scotland would not be looking for a 'border issue! Are you suggesting that rUK would cause trouble?

No not at all. There would be a hard border and tho in the Border regions may not be too suited with having to go through to get to Tesco's for example.
I am of course assuming the EU will apply all its none sense in this situation, or was the Irish border just a pawn in their game?

[morayloon]

I would expect the Nationalists to lose again

On what basis? We have now had 17 full scale Polls on Independence with YES in the lead. Of course, Polls are only suggestive of the mood but 17 in a row? Something is afoot!

Then Indy will be dead

I expected the 2014 defeat to result in a lull on the cry for Independence, similar to what happened in 1979. The fact that it did not turn out that way could mean another loss could, again, fire up the independistas. However, if we go into the campaign in front and that lead gradually fritters away and we lose, the cause could be hit hard and the YES movement could be in disarray

[morayloon]

I don't think they will be given the chance. They had their vote in a generation

We were lied to on the EU during Indyref, the Vow came to nothing and we've been forced out of the EU against our will. Any out of context 'Generation' talk is completely dead in the water.

You never know they might grow to like the EU free existence.

There are a lot of minds to change. I think it's more likely that more and more people will become disillusioned with Johnson & his cronies that Indy support will rise even further. For Westminster to deny the will of the people is undemocratic.

[johnofgwent]

Are you suggesting that rUK would cause trouble?

I have said for a while that A rump of the UK would have been quite useful actually.


I made reference several times in past years to the rantings of one of the five EU presidents that a Scottish breakaway would create not one, but TWO third party countries, and that BOTH this new Scotland AND the Rump of The UK would have to take action to remain members of the EU. Now, I am fully aware these were just the rantings of one of the five Presidents and I am sure a whole load of other politicians and activists could be found to shout him down, but the point is, this never got exercised in law so NOBODY REALLY KNOWS.


I looked into this fishing business and from where I believe we are, it is not just a question of who can catch it, but who will be allowed to sell it, and where. I see a whole load of French Thugs having a fish roast on the motorway while the gendarmerie look on amused, as always. Of course, come 2021 we can use our gunboats against such thuggery, and should. We still have the ability to jam anything the EU bought from us ....

[Borchester]

Now that the UK has secured a very reasonable deal, one that will hand a big slice of fishing rights back to Scotland   , has the rug been somewhat pulled from under Sturgeons feet? This is obviously just a question as I  don't know the mood of the Scottish people.

The other side of this is: If Scotland did get independence they would take about 50% of the UK fishing waters with them, that would be a massive bargaining tool to re-enter the EU.

In my mind this makes it less likely that Parliament is going to grant Indy2. Also would the EU / England /Scotland really want another border issue?

I don't know much about Scottish politics but as far as I can see, the driving force is independence. They don't care if they lose a few bob as a result. Not that they will. Come independence Tommy will spend a while crowing and Morayloon will have her girlfriends round and throw a few wild hen parties, but we will continue to buy whatever the hell we buy from Scotland and the Scots will continue to buy whatever they buy from us.