Indy Dead??

[Thomas]

Scot Goes Pop / Panelbase poll: By decisive margins, the Scottish public say the election result *does* give the SNP a mandate to hold an independence referendum, and that Brexit *is* a big enough change of circumstances to justify another indyref

https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2020/02/scot-goes-pop-panelbase-poll-by.html

[Thomas]

? It may be there will be many who will want to wait and see even on your side of the border. You couldn't blame them for that.

Scots want IndyRef2 'if pro-indy MSPs win majority' at Holyrood election

A poll of Scots suggests the public are more likely to accept a second referendum if Holyrood produces another Yes majority.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-referendum-support-if-22975914

there are loads of pols to choose from , but the vast majroty of scots want another indy ref over brexit , so not sure what you are talking about again toots.

This has been consistent since 2016.

Indyref2: Poll shows two-thirds of Scots want another vote

THE Tories have been warned against trying to block a second independence referendum after a new poll revealed that nearly two-thirds of Scots want the Scottish Government to organise the vote within the next parliamentary term.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18873631.scots-want-indyref-within-five-years---even-uk-says-no/

[Thomas]

Why is someone of a different opinion delusional?

people can hold any opinion they want, but if its so mind numbingly apparent its way off the mark from reality , generally this is called delusion.

Btw I ain't a Britnat

,

aye you are told you that for years.

[Sheepy]

Mmm - where is mellow Thomas of recent weeks? You have more or less said that you have rethought your view of the EU since seeing how they have treated us and really looking at it. You have called me arrogant and ignored my apology as it was not intended that way at all. There are many - me included - who if allowed a vote on Scotland independence would have voted for you to leave, so please do not assume in your agony of independence hopes that everyone is against the idea. I don't think you will get the opportunity again for some time if for no other reason than that the new world we are about to enter with Scotland at our side may well redefine how the Scots view their future.

Is the Indy lobby scared at how future developments might change the Indy vote? It may be there will be many who will want to wait and see even on your side of the border. You couldn't blame them for that.

The Liberal elite media with their usual entourage of assorted Remainers and anarchists are on their usual spite mission, which is feeding Scots Indy by making the deal look anti-SNP which the SNP will automictically take up the baton. It was bad form in the first place to use the SNP as a beating stick. But then they are so far down that path there is no turning back, if you expect Thomas a scots nationalist not to take up that baton, you are in some twilight world.

[Thomas]

Mmm - where is mellow Thomas of recent weeks? You have more or less said that you have rethought your view of the EU since seeing how they have treated us and really looking at it.

No toots , you have misinterpeted every thing i have said over recent months as somehow accepting brexit , and shutting up and going back into my box as a good little briton.

Sorry , but this is on another planet.

Let me re emphasis my point regading europe and the eu to you. I dont care about it one way or the other , but i have siad , and continue to say , what an anti democratic travesty it is england and wales dragging scotland and northern ireland out agains the clear majority will.

Im not sure in an indy scotland i would vote to rejoin the eu , nor do i support the monarchy and many other issues that are trivial by nature at the minute , when the pressing issue is to get out of the prison england has contructed for us.

If the price to get out the uk is rejoining the eu , then i will be the first in the queue to do so. I would also bend the knee to the monarch to do so despite being a longstandin republican.

Wihtout independence , none of thee other issues matter as england will as always decide our fate and call it some twisted version of demcoracy.

Mmm - where is mellow Thomas of recent weeks?

Im, still here toots. I havent changed my views on single millimetre.

.....but if you thought i am on your side , or any other british nationalist , then sorry , but you must be delusional.

You have called me arrogant and ignored my apology as it was not intended that way at all.

I accept your apology , but what im trying to convey is the mindest behind british nationalists on this thread , and how its very revealing as ever how you think of scotland.

There are many - me included - who if allowed a vote on Scotland independence would have voted for you to leave, so please do not assume in your agony of independence hopes that everyone is against the idea

talk is cheap toots , you can campaign and vote to leave the eu over a forty year period , but not once in three hundred years could the englsihman hold a vote to dissolve the uk?

You sent soldiers in to ireland to stop them leaving , you did the same in northern ireland during the troubles , and your conservative government refuses to accept numerous mandates on scotland for another referendum?

Doesnt seem to many in your government to me who want scotland to leave .

I don't think you will get the opportunity again for some time if for no other reason than that the new world we are about to enter with Scotland at our side may well redefine how the Scots view their future.

hang on a minute , you and ours voted to upset the constitutional norm that was the uk in the eu, despite being told repeatedly it would upset and possibly dissolve the uk , and you ploughed ahead anyway , stuck two fingers up to scotland 62 % remain vote , and now talk about scotland not being allowed to leave the uk  because of the new world  you created is full of uncertainty and fear?

LMFAO , sorry toots ,this is laughable.

reap what you sow.

Is the Indy lobby scared at how future developments might change the Indy vote?

Scared in what way?

You asked scotland not once, but twice in two years if they wanted to leave the eu , and both times they said no. The first time it coincided with what british nationalists wanted , so the vote stood , the second time it was brushed uder the carpet as england had voted leave.

What future developments? You have just told scotland i nyour british priosn , no matter what scotland voted for or wants , in any future sceanrio we will get what england voted for , end of story.

unlike the more democratic eu , the british prison ruled by westmisnter doesnt do rule by consent.

[cromwell]

Read the thread title. Indy dead?

I mean in what warped universe is scottish indy dead?

There has to be a special type of delusion to start a thread with that title.

Brexiters , english tories and johnson have scottish indy at an all time high probably since the days of margaret thatcher in the eighties , and the idea we all walk off into the brexter sunset as one big happy family (ie scotland imprisoned in an english prison) is of course laughable.

Why is someone of a different opinion delusional?

Btw I ain't a Britnat,if the Scots choose to leave the UK that's their perogative(Said for abou the hundredth time) I respect democracy and others opinions even if I strongly disagree still Thomas I guess you strongly disagree too

[T00ts]

what innocuous border? A border is a border , and there is a legal border there just now as there has been for three hundred years.

There has been a hard border in the vicinity for the best part of the last 2 thousand years.

This isnt like northern ireland border issue , a recent contruct that goes through villages and towns , and has only been in existence of a century.

The scottish english border is like any normal european border across europe , it traverses hills forests rivers etc , and everyone is used to it and accepts it except british nationalists.

They could build a seven hundred foot ice wall with no gates for all i care , and the majority of scottish as i showed in my poll are happy for a hard border to stay in the eu. So whats the problem?

Despite the media silence , as gerry the english remainer told you , you have just created a border in the irish sea between one part of the uk and another?

I think you english tories and brexiters are just about to have all your brexit arguments chucked back in your faces.

You havce dragged scotland out the eu against the majroity will , and it wont be forgotten. This isnt a union scotland is in , its an english prison.

We have all seen how democratic the eu and brussells is compared to the english union , where brussells allows the english to hold a referendum and doesnt interfere , while england is scared of allowng scotland a referendum  on independence and refuses.

Read the comments on this thread , and the arrogant condecending attitude ."we wont allow" ,"if you leave , we will give " , and of course someone trying to tell me my nationality.

We are at the nub of the issue of the british and european union on this thread , where the englishman sees "britain" "the uk" of whatever you want to call this prison , as greater england , and scotland ireland and wales as regions like yorkshire that are part of greater england , and sees the eu and germany in a similar role  .

If you think the border is such an agonising issue for scots  , and we wont vote for indy beacuse of it , then why is yourt prime minister such a chicken shit bottle merchant who can't stand democracy via referendums?

The more johnsons bottle goes and the tory party over an indy ref to determine if scotland wants to stay part of brexit uk or leave , the higher the indy vote rises.

Mmm - where is mellow Thomas of recent weeks? You have more or less said that you have rethought your view of the EU since seeing how they have treated us and really looking at it. You have called me arrogant and ignored my apology as it was not intended that way at all. There are many - me included - who if allowed a vote on Scotland independence would have voted for you to leave, so please do not assume in your agony of independence hopes that everyone is against the idea. I don't think you will get the opportunity again for some time if for no other reason than that the new world we are about to enter with Scotland at our side may well redefine how the Scots view their future.

Is the Indy lobby scared at how future developments might change the Indy vote? It may be there will be many who will want to wait and see even on your side of the border. You couldn't blame them for that.

[Thomas]

Read the thread title. Indy dead?

I mean in what warped universe is scottish indy dead?

There has to be a special type of delusion to start a thread with that title.

Brexiters , english tories and johnson have scottish indy at an all time high probably since the days of margaret thatcher in the eighties , and the idea we all walk off into the brexter sunset as one big happy family (ie scotland imprisoned in an english prison) is of course laughable.

[Thomas]

I somehow doubt they travel to the continent either. Poor old Cromwell, sticking his foot in it.

Eh?

The vast majority of scots who travel fly abroad via our airports sheep. Believe it or not , we do actually possess airports , and planes to use them.

I would imagine before covid 19 the popualr destinations would be spain and greece. No one is going to come to england for the weather are they?

Talking of airports , the one good thng about indy will be opening building and expanding more scottish airports , and having more long haul flights from our own country.

...but aye sheep i agree , probably the vast majority of scots , like the english and elsehwere , dont travel out of our own nations.

[Thomas]

You say that but just supposing you gain independence and then want to rejoin the EU that innocuous border will become quite a challenge to the EU. They don't give a hoot other than guarding/protecting their project.

what innocuous border? A border is a border , and there is a legal border there just now as there has been for three hundred years.

There has been a hard border in the vicinity for the best part of the last 2 thousand years.

This isnt like northern ireland border issue , a recent contruct that goes through villages and towns , and has only been in existence of a century.

The scottish english border is like any normal european border across europe , it traverses hills forests rivers etc , and everyone is used to it and accepts it except british nationalists.

They could build a seven hundred foot ice wall with no gates for all i care , and the majority of scottish as i showed in my poll are happy for a hard border to stay in the eu. So whats the problem?

Despite the media silence , as gerry the english remainer told you , you have just created a border in the irish sea between one part of the uk and another?

I think you english tories and brexiters are just about to have all your brexit arguments chucked back in your faces.

You havce dragged scotland out the eu against the majroity will , and it wont be forgotten. This isnt a union scotland is in , its an english prison.

We have all seen how democratic the eu and brussells is compared to the english union , where brussells allows the english to hold a referendum and doesnt interfere , while england is scared of allowng scotland a referendum  on independence and refuses.

Read the comments on this thread , and the arrogant condecending attitude ."we wont allow" ,"if you leave , we will give " , and of course someone trying to tell me my nationality.

We are at the nub of the issue of the british and european union on this thread , where the englishman sees "britain" "the uk" of whatever you want to call this prison , as greater england , and scotland ireland and wales as regions like yorkshire that are part of greater england , and sees the eu and germany in a similar role  .

If you think the border is such an agonising issue for scots  , and we wont vote for indy beacuse of it , then why is yourt prime minister such a chicken shit bottle merchant who cant stand democracy via referendums?

The more johnsons bottle goes and the tory party over an indy ref to determine if scotland wants to stay part of brexit uk or leave , the higher the indy vote rises.

[Sheepy]

The vast majority of scottish people do not travel over the english border

I somehow doubt they travel to the continent either. Poor old Cromwell, sticking his foot in it.

[T00ts]

im not nick. Im simply providing the evidence i possess.

The vast majority of scottish people do not travel over the english border , and likewise the vast majority of english people vice versa.

The idea scotland or england will be hamstrung in any future negotiation simply because of a border that has existed in one respect or another in the vicinity for two thousand years is with respect ridiculous.

You say that but just supposing you gain independence and then want to rejoin the EU that innocuous border will become quite a challenge to the EU. They don't give a hoot other than guarding/protecting their project.

[Thomas]

With all due respect, you can't vouch for what the majority of people on the border do and to do so would be foolish.

im not nick. Im simply providing the evidence i possess.

The vast majority of scottish people do not travel over the english border , and likewise the vast majority of english people vice versa.

The idea scotland or england will be hamstrung in any future negotiation simply because of a border that has existed in one respect or another in the vicinity for two thousand years is with respect ridiculous.

[Thomas]

Correct Tom. I looked at the map and guesstimated about 50%. BUT, the point I made was that Scotland would have a massive bargaining chip to join the EU, it wasn't about the number.

ok nick no worries.

Just setting the record straight , and showing how big a part of the current uk EEZ scotlands seas actualy are. Double what england has.

As i said , personally  , im not sure i would want scotland to join the eu , i was a very lukewarm remainer.

Also notliked a lot of the things i have seen over the last 6 years since the indy ref , but im sure you would agree the choice should be ours , to leave or stay , not be dragged out by another country.

[Nick]

rubbish nick.

The vast majority of scottish people rarely if ever venture across the border , a guy on one of the scot forums posted info about this years ago during the old indy ref .

The scot english border has been there for centuries , everyone is used to it , and currently and for the last three hundred years it has been a legal border between two differing legal systems .

I also posted a poll from a few years back showing the vast majority of scots would accept an extremely hard border between scotland and england to stay in  , or join the eu.

With all due respect, you can't vouch for what the majority of people on the border do and to do so would be foolish.