Johnson's Christmas Present

[BeElBeeBub]

Well on the amusing side young Nick, considering we would sink never to be seen again after the 1st of January, we seem to have trade deals with one third of the world already.

Can you indicate which trade deals we have recently signed that are *not* roll overs of deals we had via the EU?

Credit needs to be given to the civil servants negotiating these deals that they were able to roll over so many of them. I was sceptical they could manage that, although they have achieved it by copying the existing deals almost entirely.

It seems odd that a major leaver gripe was "the trade deals are for all EU members we should get bespoke UK ones" and then to celebrate signing "cut and paste" deals that are near identical.

[BeElBeeBub]

What you're not taking into account is that these services are required by the EU and the UK does it better and cheaper than anyone. This is a short term problem

The EU doesn't have accountants, engineers, architects, film makers, musicians?

It is classic British arrogance to assume we have some unique "special sauce" that cannot be replicated anywhere else.  It's doomed many of our industries ("the Japanese may be able to make fine small motorcycle but they cannot innovate and certainly cannot make thourghbred sports bikes").

The single market is the largest and most open services market in the world and services are a major UK export strength. That is not a coincidence.

UK services (where they can operate in the EU) now have an extra layer of bureaucracy and cost to navigate.

We've better hope we can negotiate better access.

[BeElBeeBub]

didnt you remainers tell everyone this was impossible and that it was too late to deal while brexiters said the eu always leaves it till last minute?

Many remainers (including me) did think it impossible.

It came right down to the wire though, and disruption was only avoided by the unanimous vote of the council to allow this to be provisionally applied prior to full ratification.

However it hasn't really allowed time for full scrutiny of the extremely long and complex deal by parliament who are been rushed into rubber-stamping this, so much for the sovereignty of parliament.

Let's not forget, the last time Johnson rushed through a deal and denied any scrutiny was the WA which turned out to have many clauses that the UK didn't like.

[Sheepy]

That's right I'm spinning things. You can now see the light because you have less trade options than the EU and the EU is continuing to expand its global reach. Nobody has shown how any new UK deal is better than what they had and brexit is costing far more than EU membership. Some day someone will demonstrate an upside to Brexit, but I suppose you will have to leave before that can be seen.

It didn't matter how NI people voted, it was always about how the people of England voted.

Exactly we both know it is spin. Our trade options are fine thanks.

[GerryT]

You aren't confused, just outflanked. You will try and spin it to fit your mindset, which is why I laughed earlier.

That's right I'm spinning things. You can now see the light because you have less trade options than the EU and the EU is continuing to expand its global reach. Nobody has shown how any new UK deal is better than what they had and brexit is costing far more than EU membership. Some day someone will demonstrate an upside to Brexit, but I suppose you will have to leave before that can be seen.

It didn't matter how NI people voted, it was always about how the people of England voted.

[Sheepy]

So the EU with the most FTA's of any country / group on the planet and gaining more deals. The EU with it's freedom of movement, its approach to accepting immigration, encouraging trade across the globe is inward looking
While the UK, bringing in strict immigration rules, looking for minimal FTA's, electing to stay out of Erasmus is outward looking ?

O I have it.

By the wy, can you tell me what trade you can do now that you couldn't have done while in the EU, because I haven't heard of any trade deals the UK is doing that the EU doesn't currently have. SO how is that more inclusive ?  Must say I'm confused.

You aren't confused, just outflanked. You will try and spin it to fit your mindset, which is why I laughed earlier.

[GerryT]

I am happy because I could have been like Irish leave voters and listened to your like and thought ok this is my lot and I have no other choice, whereas I always thought there is a bigger wider world than that, there is something more if you look for it. Rather than an inward approach I saw a wider approach. Funny now you see it. A revelation perhaps.

So the EU with the most FTA's of any country / group on the planet and gaining more deals. The EU with it's freedom of movement, its approach to accepting immigration, encouraging trade across the globe is inward looking
While the UK, bringing in strict immigration rules, looking for minimal FTA's, electing to stay out of Erasmus is outward looking ?

O I have it.

By the wy, can you tell me what trade you can do now that you couldn't have done while in the EU, because I haven't heard of any trade deals the UK is doing that the EU doesn't currently have. SO how is that more inclusive ?  Must say I'm confused.

[cromwell]

Well Gerry says a lot of things, probably because his glasses get steamed up.

I'm not sure rose tinted specs steam up,they just give a warped vision of reality,bit like the hall of mirrors at a fairground where you're fat when you're thin.

[Sheepy]

Remains to be seen sheepy, remains to be seen. I have yet to see the detail. Your happy though, have you the detail ?
If not why are you happy?

But like I said some days back, a trade deal leaves two winners either way, it removes barriers to trade and people, that's always good.

I am happy because I could have been like Irish leave voters and listened to your like and thought ok this is my lot and I have no other choice, whereas I always thought there is a bigger wider world than that, there is something more if you look for it. Rather than an inward approach I saw a wider approach. Funny now you see it. A revelation perhaps.

[GerryT]

Well it seems I was right about trade deals, bad luck for you on that one.

Remains to be seen sheepy, remains to be seen. I have yet to see the detail. Your happy though, have you the detail ?
If not why are you happy?

But like I said some days back, a trade deal leaves two winners either way, it removes barriers to trade and people, that's always good.

[Borchester]

I hope everyone had a nice Christmas.



So, Leavers - are you happy?

Pretty much so. Most of the Remainers I know have said something along the lines of sod it, but the vote went against us so we will grit our teeth and make the best of it. A few Islington, why we gave the lower orders the vote, types have whinged but what use are they anyway?

As for leavers and as said so many times before, the ballot paper just asked if we wanted to leave or stay, not how much it would cost.

[Sheepy]

More likely because you get so much wrong

Well it seems I was right about trade deals, bad luck for you on that one.

[GerryT]

Well Gerry says a lot of things, probably because his glasses get steamed up.

More likely because you get so much wrong

[GerryT]

Gerry has got his EU specs on again, apparently the deal is one sided and stacked in the EU's favour.
Oh how Barnier laughed as he handed out the only zero tariff deal in the EU's history. And when he told the French they will lose 15% of their fishing quota next year I hear he nearly split his sides.

Go on Nick, tell me, does the zero tariff zero quota deal cover all goods.
Whats happening with level playing field or dispute resolution or is the UK in anyway tied into EU law. You tell me as I haven't seen the detail.

As for Japan, I'd love to see how the UK deal is better than what the EU has, for two reasons.
1. The EU/Japan deal states that Japan can't sign a more favourable deal with any other country (thats a hard one to get around)
2. I've a bit of an understanding on the tariff free quotas, basically the UK is only getting a share of the EU tariff free quota if the EU doesn't first use up the quota. Unless you have more reliable info. I'd like to see how this deal is better.

Maybe you think that Japan in the future pulling production from the UK because under this deal it can just drop ship the cars from Japan as better for the UK.

[Sheepy]

Gerry has got his EU specs on again, apparently the deal is one sided and stacked in the EU's favour.
Oh how Barnier laughed as he handed out the only zero tariff deal in the EU's history. And when he told the French they will lose 15% of their fishing quota next year I hear he nearly split his sides.

Well Gerry says a lot of things, probably because his glasses get steamed up.