Johnson's Christmas Present

[Barry]

I am disappointed (but not surprised) that is is nothing close to what was promised ("exact same benefits" etc etc).

That (exact same benefits) never was promised.
We didn't want freedom of movement.
We didn't want political union.
We didn't want to pay to be part of the EU single market.
We didn't want the extra layer of politics.
We didn't want EU law to supersede our laws.

Pretty much job done then. Sorry if you have to fill in another form online.

[BeElBeeBub]

How do non eu countries exist or are not Stone Age economies,still you carry on beebly the best advert for leaving.

Have a read of this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-55475723

Then come back and bluster about how it's only a small thing and sovereignty is much nicer.

But it's lots and lots of small things all adding up.

[BeElBeeBub]

We have got a zero tariff zero quota deal, something we were told would not happen in a million years.

no, a 0/0 deal was always on the table as long as there was a "level playing field" mechanism acceptable to the EU.

W do not confirm to any EU law including the ECJ and we are 100% sovereign.

I would check the small print if I were you.  It"s 1,200 plus pages and the "level playing field" is still in there. It will be dressed up in convoluted language for the UK's consumption, like the NI protocol was (remember that? "NI remains in the UK customs territory but the UK agrees that particular corner of it's customs territory will follow EU rules"?). It's in there in title XI.  The EU (or UK) can take measures (eg tariffs) if they believe the other side is damaging competition.

We get 0/0 tariffs and are 100% free to diverge if we wish, but if we diverge we will lose some or all of the 0/0 deal.

How does that not conform? What were we promised before the referendum that we have t got?

That we would have the exact same benefits.  We don't.

There are increaced barriers to goods and services trades.

UK citizens have lost their freedom of movement rights (for both business and non-business), Erasmus, Galileo, Policing databases all gone.

We do not have "the exact same benefits"

We have more, not less trade barriers with the rest of the world.

We have less influence over the large trade and regulatory superpower on our doorstep.  The decisions made in Brussels and the continent will still affect us, buy we now have much reduced say in them.

Still, we did get blue passports. So there is that.

[BeElBeeBub]

Right. So....the world hasn't ended, we just can't export [uncooked] sausages to Europe?

It doesn't seem to have dampened the enthusiasm of the farmer from Devon whose going to export them frozen, does it? Why does it never occur to people like you that for every "wrinkle" there will be an opportunity?

Well, I guess at least "wrinkles" is a climb down from the end of the world

Not exactly world ending but the sausage example (and the seed potato one) etc all show that "no trade barriers" is a lie.

There will be additional trade barriers. Full stop.

Some will be small and some insurmountable but the net effect is additional friction

Sure you can switch to exporting frozen sausages, if you can afford the machinery and your customers are happy with them.

You can relocate to the EU as well. Or you could trim your margins to offset the friction. 

The opportunities you alluded to are like your car breaking down is a great opportunity to walk more.

[Nick]

The end of the world? 

That's a shame 😂

[DeppityDawg]

What were we promised before the referendum that we have t got?

The end of the world? 

[Nick]

And there in a nutshell is the Brexiter position.

You don't care that your promises of things being better are now turning to ash.  Brexit was only ever about "owning the remainers"

I will assume your last sentence means you are happy with the outcome of a deal and not that you are deriving joy from remainers unhappiness (as I pointed out i broadly welcome the deal so am not that unhappy).

We have got a zero tariff zero quota deal, something we were told would not happen in a million years. W do not confirm to any EU law including the ECJ and we are 100% sovereign. How does that not conform? What were we promised before the referendum that we have t got?

[DeppityDawg]

Not imaginary or fantastical just another one of the details which mean the claim of "no trade barriers to the EU" is simply another example of the Johnson adminstration outright lying.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55479354

As I said above. I suspect there will be many more of these little wrinkles that trip businesses up in the coming months.

Right. So....the world hasn't ended, we just can't export [uncooked] sausages to Europe?

It doesn't seem to have dampened the enthusiasm of the farmer from Devon whose going to export them frozen, does it? Why does it never occur to people like you that for every "wrinkle" there will be an opportunity?

Well, I guess at least "wrinkles" is a climb down from the end of the world

[cromwell]

They exist perfectly fine on the other side of the planet or following the regulatory orbit if their nearest power block (US, China or EU depending).

The UK has no choice now but to to dance to the EU's tune.  We've lost freedom not gained it.

Again, you are showing that brexiters care more about making remainers unhappy than brexit actually delivering what was promised.

Why would I care whether remainers are happy or not,I didn't vote to achieve either.

Regulatory orbit eh,by that reasoning the east European states should never have left the soviet bloc and tell the South east asia nations,India,Japan and Pacific countries they should adhere to what China dictates.

[BeElBeeBub]

How do non eu countries exist or are not Stone Age economies,still you carry on beebly the best advert for leaving

They exist perfectly fine on the other side of the planet or following the regulatory orbit if their nearest power block (US, China or EU depending).

The UK has no choice now but to to dance to the EU's tune.  We've lost freedom not gained it.

Again, you are showing that brexiters care more about making remainers unhappy than brexit actually delivering what was promised.

[BeElBeeBub]

Your like a chicken scratting in the dirt for little crumbs.
Don't you realise we don't care what you think, we've got what we want and again we don't care if things get a little tougher and more expensive. What makes it even sweeter is that Remoaners like you are desperately searching for negatives to give your selves some comfort. Get over it, we're happy you're not, move on.

And there in a nutshell is the Brexiter position.

You don't care that your promises of things being better are now turning to ash.  Brexit was only ever about "owning the remainers"

I will assume your last sentence means you are happy with the outcome of a deal and not that you are deriving joy from remainers unhappiness (as I pointed out i broadly welcome the deal so am not that unhappy).

[cromwell]

Some planes would fly, some wouldn't.

Here is what the CAA assumed in the event of no agreement on air transport.

UK based airlines would lose some rights to fly between European destinations and UK pilot licences (and maintenance certificates) wouldn't be recognised. That is why several airlines re flagged as European and made their pilots re-register.

That is the extreme "bitter divorce" scenario where there was zero deal at all and we "just stuck two fingers up at the EU and walked out" as some advocated.  As it happened cooler heads prevailed and some fallback agreements were arranged in that event (before Jan 2020 IIRC).

How do non eu countries exist or are not Stone Age economies,still you carry on beebly the best advert for leaving.

[BeElBeeBub]

So, what exactly is your problem now?

aside from the fact the "no dealers" will use the fact there was a deal to carp on about how "we haven't left" and "it wasn't proper brexit" I am broadly pleased there was a deal.

I am disappointed (but not surprised) that is is nothing close to what was promised ("exact same benefits" etc etc).

I suspect there will be many details that will be.missed because of the rushed nature of the deal that will come back to disappoint the UK in the future.

I don't believe this will end Brexit, rather it will lock us into a perpetual 5 year cycle of bickering about the UK/EU relationship.

The UK voted to leave the EU and the world didn't end. We went through 4 years of convoluted negotiations and the world didn't end. We've arrived at a deal and the world still hasn't ended yet?

What is your problem now? Because it seems to me that its people like you constantly inferring that everything is going to be awful and that disaster probably lies just around the corner who are making all the fantastical claims?

Don't you think its time to stop making up imaginary sausage stories and doing incessant calculations and move the feck on? Its done Beelbeeb. We lost. We've left the EU.

Not imaginary or fantastical just another one of the details which mean the claim of "no trade barriers to the EU" is simply another example of the Johnson adminstration outright lying.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55479354

As I said above. I suspect there will be many more of these little wrinkles that trip businesses up in the coming months.

[Nick]

Some planes would fly, some wouldn't.

Here is what the CAA assumed in the event of no agreement on air transport.

UK based airlines would lose some rights to fly between European destinations and UK pilot licences (and maintenance certificates) wouldn't be recognised. That is why several airlines re flagged as European and made their pilots re-register.

That is the extreme "bitter divorce" scenario where there was zero deal at all and we "just stuck two fingers up at the EU and walked out" as some advocated.  As it happened cooler heads prevailed and some fallback agreements were arranged in that event (before Jan 2020 IIRC).

Your like a chicken scratting in the dirt for little crumbs.
Don't you realise we don't care what you think, we've got what we want and again we don't care if things get a little tougher and more expensive. What makes it even sweeter is that Remoaners like you are desperately searching for negatives to give your selves some comfort. Get over it, we're happy you're not, move on.

[BeElBeeBub]

The reason planes will still fly has nothing to do with Brexit, they would still fly regardless.
I know this because I had this conversation with Bénédicte Duval, general manager of KLM UK.
We would simply revert to the deals that were in place prior to the European Project.

Some planes would fly, some wouldn't.

Here is what the CAA assumed in the event of no agreement on air transport.

Through the EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018, all European aviation laws are adopted at the end of the transition period.
The UK withdraws completely from the EASA system on 1 January 2021, meaning that the CAA will need to fulfil regulatory functions without having EASA as a technical agent and without having access to EASA and EU-level capabilities.
The UK is no longer included in EU-level Bilateral Aviation Safety Agreements. New UK agreements will come into effect.
There is no mutual recognition agreement between the EU and the UK for aviation licences, approvals and certificates.
UK-issued licences and approvals (issued when the UK was an EASA member) will continue to have validity under UK law but only those contained in EU Regulation 2019/494 will continue to have validity within the EU system, as defined by that regulation.
The EU treats UK airlines as Third Country Operators.
All licences issued by the CAA under EU legislation, and all type approval certificates and third country approvals issued by EASA under EU legislation, will continue to have validity under UK law, provided they were effective immediately before 1 January 2021.
The UK has minimised additional requirements for licences, approvals and certificates from EU aviation and aerospace companies providing services and goods in the UK.

UK based airlines would lose some rights to fly between European destinations and UK pilot licences (and maintenance certificates) wouldn't be recognised. That is why several airlines re flagged as European and made their pilots re-register.

That is the extreme "bitter divorce" scenario where there was zero deal at all and we "just stuck two fingers up at the EU and walked out" as some advocated.  As it happened cooler heads prevailed and some fallback agreements were arranged in that event (before Jan 2020 IIRC).