We're OUT

[Thomas]

In short, it is not over yet and while you party,

by the way sampan , the snp arent plottin to make englands brexit go tits up. They are plotting to take scotland out of the uk.

did you think that would be it , uk leaves the eu and the snp go back in their box and the jocks go back to voting labour and we all walk off hand in hand into the brexit sunset?

I am voting snp and scottish indy every single election till it happens , with the same determination and intensity you brexiters did in trying to leave the eu.

So im not sure what the surprise is.

[Thomas]

Its great to be out and it would be even better if we were able to set ourselves back up again as the great Merchant Adventurers that we used to be.
To this though, we will need to leave WOKE sensitivities behind, with the EU and sadly, I think this will be a much harder burden to put down, not least as because it the lifeboat that the ardent remainers will crowd into in the hope of being able to scupper the whole venture, with the aim of course, of getting us all to give it up as a mistake and swim back to the EU mother ship and beg forgiveness.

In short, it is not over yet and while you party, the Blairs of this world are still plotting to make it all go tits up!

I agree more or less with your post.

For the record i want england and wales to do well and prosper outside the eu , and i have said this many a time. No one in europe wants some burned out failure of a banana republic on their doorstep , and i know most scots certainly dont.

As you allude to , remainers in england are englands problem going forward. From ex politicians like blair ,the current pro eu labour leadership , to the ground troops choking for disaster that we see on political forums like this.

They are your problem now going forward , not scotland , the eu or anyone else.

This is merely the completion of a part of the journey . Im as suprised with some brexiters who think thats it , all done , lets go back to the old world of decades ago , and settle back to nornality ,  as im as unsurprised about english remainers whining incessantly about democracy.

...but brit nats cant have it both ways.

Up till now , while i didnt vote for brexit , i have by and large steadfastly said over the last four years democracy must be enacted , and took brexiters side when anti democrats wanted to overthrow the referendum result.

Similarly , brexiters  now cant argue scotland cant have a referendum on remaining part of a brexiting uk , or that remainers cant now have another referendum going forward if they get a party like labour into power in four years time.

Democracy is a neverendum , and you have to fight for it every day.

[Sampanviking]

Its great to be out and it would be even better if we were able to set ourselves back up again as the great Merchant Adventurers that we used to be.
To this though, we will need to leave WOKE sensitivities behind, with the EU and sadly, I think this will be a much harder burden to put down, not least as because it the lifeboat that the ardent remainers will crowd into in the hope of being able to scupper the whole venture, with the aim of course, of getting us all to give it up as a mistake and swim back to the EU mother ship and beg forgiveness.

In short, it is not over yet and while you party, the Blairs of this world are still plotting to make it all go tits up!

[Thomas]

I think we can discount any running away on the part of BJ if that's how you see it.

what would you call sying no to a referendum then?

Remember both your party , the tories , and the liberals mocking labour under ed milliband for refusing to support holding a brexit referendum and they accused him of running away from democracy?

Cameron was a democrat and had balls unlike johnson.

The scottish people see it that way toots , which is why johnson is a figure of ridicule in scotland.

but what if it was negative again would the fight die for a while?

What if it wasnt?

Democracy is democracy  , and as i keep saying by its very own nature , democracy is a neverendum which needs testing on a regular basis.

Only anti demcorats need fear constant democracy.

Have you learned nothing over the last four half years?

The more anti democrats try and stop democracy the angrier the people get.

[T00ts]

the vote will come. One way or the other. Scotland isnt a prisoner of england , we are in a treaty of union with you , and as david davis said last year , there is no treaty in the world a nation can't walk away from if it so chooses.

Every day johnson says no to an indy ref , sturgeon is printing off yes votes.

Theres nothing worse than a coward saying no to democracy and  refusing to listen to peoples views.

Need i remain you after all the hard work that ruth davidson has done in scotland , and she is pro eu and pro uk , johnson has lost all that hard work and he decimated the tory ranks in scotland last december.

Johnson running away is a gift to nicola sturgeon.

I think we can discount any running away on the part of BJ if that's how you see it. I agree that logic says that you should decide, but what if it was negative again would the fight die for a while?

[Thomas]

should the majority want it when/if the vote comes.

the vote will come. One way or the other. Scotland isnt a prisoner of england , we are in a treaty of union with you , and as david davis said last year , there is no treaty in the world a nation cant walk away from if it so chooses.

Every day johnson says no to an indy ref , sturgeon is printing off yes votes.

Theres nothing worse than a coward saying no to democracy and  refusing to listen to peoples views.

Need i remain you after all the hard work that ruth davidson has done in scotland , and she is pro eu and pro uk , johnson has lost all that hard work and he decimated the tory ranks in scotland last december.

Johnson running away is a gift to nicola sturgeon.

[Thomas]

Was it a lie? I was just thinking back to that time and the Government was convinced that we would be in the EU forever. They didn't realise their mistake until the vote came in. I remember the complete shock on everyone's faces that night. THey were thrown right off their game. I'm not so sure that it was necessarily a ploy but the failure of successive government's to read public opinion has given the SNP a nice bright crowbar to lever you out - should the majority want it when/if the vote comes.

Wether anyone thinks it a lie , or not the point is eu membership was a big massive plank of the remain in the uk argument in 2014. Everyone knows it.

So now that arugment has been blown right out the water  , and scotland voted overwhelingly to remain in the eu two years after the scot indy vote , then scotland deserves a refererndum on uk memberhsip out the eu , or leaving the uk and joining the eu.

[Thomas]

It seems to me a lot of this goes back to Gordon Brown and his entourage of Westminster politicians promising things they couldn't deliver as usual Thomas.

sure  ,and nick clegg and the liberals , cameron and the tories. Everyone of them .

So they won a referendum under false pretences , they cant complain when it comes back to haunt them and blows up in their faces.

[T00ts]

i know sheep im not arguing , im simply saying its a non argument.

There is more freedom as a member of the eu  , than scotland has of the uk , so right at the first hurdle the argument falls.

Secondly , nearly three quarters of scots polled want to join the eu now , up from 62 % who voted remain.

Thirdly , your government lied to scotland about eu membership , and it pissed a lot off.

Sitting telling people eu membership isnt independence when your country has dragged scotland out the eu against the popular will isnt going to wash sheep.

If i was in your position , i wouldnt mention it , cause everytime english politicians do , its like a red rag to a bull.

The snp are taking the populist view on the eu in scotland.

Was it a lie? I was just thinking back to that time and the Government was convinced that we would be in the EU forever. They didn't realise their mistake until the vote came in. I remember the complete shock on everyone's faces that night. THey were thrown right off their game. I'm not so sure that it was necessarily a ploy but the failure of successive government's to read public opinion has given the SNP a nice bright crowbar to lever you out - should the majority want it when/if the vote comes.

[Sheepy]

i know sheep im not arguing , im simply saying its a non argument.

There is more freedom as a member of the eu  , than scotland has of the uk , so right at the first hurdle the argument falls.

Secondly , nearly three quarters of scots polled want to join the eu now , up from 62 % who voted remain.

Thirdly , your government lied to scotland about eu membership , and it pissed a lot off.

Sitting telling people eu membership isnt independence when your country has dragged scotland out the eu against the popular will isnt going to wash sheep.

If i was in your position , i wouldnt mention it , cause everytime english politicians do , its like a red rag to a bull.

The snp are taking the populist view on the eu in scotland.

It seems to me a lot of this goes back to Gordon Brown and his entourage of Westminster politicians promising things they couldn't deliver as usual Thomas.

[Thomas]

Like I said interesting perspective, I am not trying to put off anybody just getting a perspective and taking an interest, I really don't have a horse in the race.

i know sheep im not arguing , im simply saying its a non argument.

There is more freedom as a member of the eu  , than scotland has of the uk , so right at the first hurdle the argument falls.

Secondly , nearly three quarters of scots polled want to join the eu now , up from 62 % who voted remain.

Thirdly , your government lied to scotland about eu membership , and it pissed a lot off.

Sitting telling people eu membership isnt independence when your country has dragged scotland out the eu against the popular will isnt going to wash sheep.

If i was in your position , i wouldnt mention it , cause everytime english politicians do , its like a red rag to a bull.

The snp are taking the populist view on the eu in scotland.

[Sheepy]

no im not.

I told you before , i voted remain , have been and always will be at best lukewarm about eu membership.

You arent going to put anyone in scotland off scot indy and the snp by telling them being an eu memebr isnt independence.Most folk , the 62 % who voted remain , will laugh at you.

I will bend the knee to the monarch and brussells if i have to to get out the uk.

Like I said interesting perspective, I am not trying to put off anybody just getting a perspective and taking an interest, I really don't have a horse in the race.

[Thomas]

No I mean the growing number of Scottish independence voters who realise the EU isn't voting for independence. Which you are starting to fit in that category yourself.

no im not.

I told you before , i voted remain , have been and always will be at best lukewarm about eu membership.

You arent going to put anyone in scotland off scot indy and the snp by telling them being an eu memebr isnt independence.Most folk , the 62 % who voted remain , will laugh at you.

I will bend the knee to the monarch and brussells if i have to to get out the uk.

[Sheepy]

A growing number of scots?

What you mean a few king billy harcore scottish unionist rangers fans?

Sheep , whats to explain.

Scotland voted 62 % to remain inthe eu in a free and fair vote . No one held a gun to their heads.

Scotland voted to remain in the uk because of eu membership.

The snp are taking advantage of the overwhelming pro europeans in scotland , and you find it strange?

Its like me saying i found it strange boris johnson took advatage of the anti eu feeling in england to get elected last december.

Where were these growing number of anti eu  scots in 2016 brexit referendum? Where were they last decemeber when the pro eu snp won the majority of scottish seats?

You are now doing the inverse of the english remainer and trying to invent the mythical scottish leave majority that doesnt exist. Scotland doesnt agree with you sheep , like it or lump it.

No I mean the growing number of Scottish independence voters who realise the EU isn't voting for independence. Which you are starting to fit in that category yourself.

[Thomas]

, when I do know a growing number of Scots find it all a little odd as well.

A growing number of scots?

What you mean a few king billy harcore scottish unionist rangers fans?

Sheep , whats to explain.

Scotland voted 62 % to remain inthe eu in a free and fair vote . No one held a gun to their heads.

Scotland voted to remain in the uk because of eu membership.

The snp are taking advantage of the overwhelming pro europeans in scotland , and you find it strange?

Its like me saying i found it strange boris johnson took advatage of the anti eu feeling in england to get elected last december.

Where were these growing number of anti eu  scots in 2016 brexit referendum? Where were they last decemeber when the pro eu snp won the majority of scottish seats?

You are now doing the inverse of the english remainer and trying to invent the mythical scottish leave majority that doesnt exist. Scotland doesnt agree with you sheep , like it or lump it.