The return of Tony Bliar?

[Thomas]

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[Thomas]

That's probably true Sheep. But what would be the point of being represented by a squeaky clean, clueless ,individual, with no clue as to the rules of the game, and how to manipulate them to home advantage.
Isn't it an argument put forward here at times , that is exactly why the Tories ,are presently preferred by many right now because we know they have no scruples. And that's how we like it.
If it's an argument for not fighting fire with fire.  What should one do? Rely on a knight in shinning armour to piss on the Tories from a distance.?

So who is the labour partys current "machiavellian genius" then good old?

Own goal specialist sir keir?

[Good old]

In other words a perfect politician, no scruples whatsoever.

That's probably true Sheep. But what would be the point of being represented by a squeaky clean, clueless ,individual, with no clue as to the rules of the game, and how to manipulate them to home advantage.
Isn't it an argument put forward here at times , that is exactly why the Tories ,are presently preferred by many right now because we know they have no scruples. And that's how we like it.
If it's an argument for not fighting fire with fire.  What should one do? Rely on a knight in shinning armour to piss on the Tories from a distance.?

[Thomas]

He was very good at it too also when it came to public speaking. Telling different audiences different things but telling each one what they wanted to hear. And sounding heartfelt and sincere as he did so. He could sound as socialist as a socialist when he wanted to. At other times he could sound as Thatcherite as a Thatcherite. And sound utterly sincere. That was the secret of his success early on, what made him an effective politician. But people see through that in the end and realise they have been lied to, learning to judge only by deeds and not words. Hence he is remembered by both left and right alike now as one of the most duplicitous liars we have ever had as a prime minister. Someone who can lie with apparent sincerity like he could is never to be trusted. You can never be sure for a second if he actually believes what he is saying. Or whether it is just another lie.

Boris of course lies like there's no tomorrow too. But his lies are utterly transparent and fool only those eager to believe. In that sense he is just as much an unprincipled liar as Blair but much less effective at it. Effective liars like Blair are the more dangerous in the end.

Well i have to say steve thats probably one of the more reasoned and thoughtfull posts of yours in recent times on this forum , and one which is fully agree.

Its not just the price the labour party have paid for blair and this three victories that is the problem , its politics in general , where unprincipled liars like blair have taken politics into new depths never before seen.

While blair lost 4 million votes between 1997 and 2005 for labour , his biggest legacy was turning millions more off politics altogether , with his 2001 victory being one of the lowest turnouts in modern general election history probably since the first world war.

[Sheepy]

He was very good at it too also when it came to public speaking. Telling different audiences different things but telling each one what they wanted to hear. And sounding heartfelt and sincere as he did so. He could sound as socialist as a socialist when he wanted to. At other times he could sound as Thatcherite as a Thatcherite. And sound utterly sincere. That was the secret of his success early on, what made him an effective politician. But people see through that in the end and realise they have been lied to, learning to judge only by deeds and not words. Hence he is remembered by both left and right alike now as one of the most duplicitous liars we have ever had as a prime minister. Someone who can lie with apparent sincerity like he could is never to be trusted. You can never be sure for a second if he actually believes what he is saying. Or whether it is just another lie.

Boris of course lies like there's no tomorrow too. But his lies are utterly transparent and fool only those eager to believe. In that sense he is just as much an unprincipled liar as Blair but much less effective at it. Effective liars like Blair are the more dangerous in the end.

In other words a perfect politician, no scruples whatsoever.

[srb7677]

he would always agree with the chap he was talking too. Of course, the next bloke might have a different point of view and Blair would agree with him as well..

He was very good at it too also when it came to public speaking. Telling different audiences different things but telling each one what they wanted to hear. And sounding heartfelt and sincere as he did so. He could sound as socialist as a socialist when he wanted to. At other times he could sound as Thatcherite as a Thatcherite. And sound utterly sincere. That was the secret of his success early on, what made him an effective politician. But people see through that in the end and realise they have been lied to, learning to judge only by deeds and not words. Hence he is remembered by both left and right alike now as one of the most duplicitous liars we have ever had as a prime minister. Someone who can lie with apparent sincerity like he could is never to be trusted. You can never be sure for a second if he actually believes what he is saying. Or whether it is just another lie.

Boris of course lies like there's no tomorrow too. But his lies are utterly transparent and fool only those eager to believe. In that sense he is just as much an unprincipled liar as Blair but much less effective at it. Effective liars like Blair are the more dangerous in the end.

[T00ts]

Yeah just seen Starmers pitch on the Beeb and at the moment a discussion on the vaccination campaign and what the tony Bliar institute advises,when the tosser puts on that look at me serious international politician trying to sort out your problems face he looks more like a geriatric badger sucking a lemon to me and despite being a pretty peaceful person every time I see his face I want to punch it.

...and I have always thought of you as a bit of a peace lover! I know exactly what you mean. I struggle with his very dead eyes. I am not sure empathy is in his repertoire and as far as being a politician of global worth is concerned he has to be a non starter. Any Statesman worth his salt will see right through him. I missed the BBC interview though - I'm gutted!

[Sheepy]

I try not to be too cynical.  I try hard to retain the belief that people go into politics initially to make a difference for the country and the people in it. I am aware that it might get warped within the confines of the Westminster village, which is disheartening, but if I was to lose that hope then I might give up altogether. Hopefully my faith in the intrinsic goodness of people will win the day!   

Well good luck with that one. the Westminster party are frauds to the core.

[cromwell]

Just another day in Politics Toots and they are already working on the next illusion. it is always the masses that pay the price.

Yeah just seen Starmers pitch on the Beeb and at the moment a discussion on the vaccination campaign and what the tony Bliar institute advises,when the tosser puts on that look at me serious international politician trying to sort out your problems face he looks more like a geriatric badger sucking a lemon to me and despite being a pretty peaceful person every time I see his face I want to punch it.

[T00ts]

Just another day in Politics Toots and they are already working on the next illusion. it is always the masses that pay the price.

I try not to be too cynical.  I try hard to retain the belief that people go into politics initially to make a difference for the country and the people in it. I am aware that it might get warped within the confines of the Westminster village, which is disheartening, but if I was to lose that hope then I might give up altogether. Hopefully my faith in the intrinsic goodness of people will win the day!   

[Sheepy]

...and the Labour party benches stood up and gave him an ovation. It was appropriate for a man who was in his best acting role of his life.

Just another day in Politics Toots and they are already working on the next illusion. it is always the masses that pay the price.

[T00ts]

Blair was slid out before the crash that plenty of people knew was coming and left Gordon Brown holding the baby. At the time the banks were already trying to dump their debt, without trying to cause panic, it is all fraud.

...and the Labour party benches stood up and gave him an ovation. It was appropriate for a man who was in his best acting role of his life.

[Sheepy]

I read a comment today that suggested that Blair feels that he stood down at the height of his powers. He obviously has a very short memory. He would no more stand for election than fly, but if someone would just open the door and let him onto Labour front benches there would be burn marks on the carpets as he rushed to his seat.

Blair was slid out before the crash that plenty of people knew was coming and left Gordon Brown holding the baby. At the time the banks were already trying to dump their debt, without trying to cause panic, it is all fraud.

[papasmurf]

, but if someone would just open the door and let him onto Labour front benches there would be burn marks on the carpets as he rushed to his seat.

He managed to lose five million of Labour's core vote when he was in office. If he came back that would finish off the Labour party.

[T00ts]

Putting aside my personal thoughts anyone that  wants to set government policy on anything needs to be either elected or invited . Blair is certainly not the former and anyone that suggests the later needs to be as Cromwell says sacking .

The man is a coward ,he wont stand for election but is happy to gob off for no other reason that the anti government  media allow it .

I read a comment today that suggested that Blair feels that he stood down at the height of his powers. He obviously has a very short memory. He would no more stand for election than fly, but if someone would just open the door and let him onto Labour front benches there would be burn marks on the carpets as he rushed to his seat.