Reason To Take Vaccine

[Borchester]

I think the most important issue is that people are given a frank and honest statement of known risk and the unknowns


At that point it's the individuals choice.


Sadly, I feel too few are told the whole truth.

Quite.

I am hampered by the fact that I spent two years as a mortuary porter and therefore don't believe a word doctors tell me. On the other hand, I have reached that stage in my life where I am taking so many drugs that a few more won't make any odds. Plus, if I don't shoot up Madam will give me terminal earache.

As said before and with all due apologies for repeating myself, the problem is that we have become a much gentler nation. A few oldies who were going to die anyway have turned up their toes so now we are all running around like blue bummed flies over a not overly severe outbreak of the flu.

O tempora, o mores o what a load of hysterical shit 

[Scott777]

Drugs stop becoming ''experimental'' when the advice on taking them doesn't include the words might or can . As  I have said all drugs are experimental to some degree . The simple Aspirin has had a chequered journey for instance with plus and minus reviews over the years , Caffeine is good for you one week and bad the next .

Given that all drugs have reactions and possible side effects for some people at what point do you accept a drug as safe and not experimental ?   

I would certainly not accept a drug as safe and not experimental when it is officially designated as experimental and the clinical trials are incomplete.  The clinical trials for Aspirin are complete, it is not designated as experimental, and it has been used for a long time.  I'm not entirely satisfied to go with your own personal feeling on degree of experimental status.  I will stick with the clinical trials if you don't mind.

[johnofgwent]

I haven't got an argument against anyone who doesn't want to take it , its your choice .

I think the most important issue is that people are given a frank and honest statement of known risk and the unknowns


At that point it's the individuals choice.


Sadly, I feel too few are told the whole truth.

[johnofgwent]

Drugs stop becoming ''experimental'' when the advice on taking them doesn't include the words might or can . As  I have said all drugs are experimental to some degree . The simple Aspirin has had a chequered journey for instance with plus and minus reviews over the years , Caffeine is good for you one week and bad the next .

Given that all drugs have reactions and possible side effects for some people at what point do you accept a drug as safe and not experimental ?

As one who has worked at the coalface ...


Never.


A case in point. Amytryptalline.


This is a drug that has three different effects at different dosage levels.


At the lowest dose its impact is to reduce the transmission of electrical impulses across involuntary muscles. In these doses it is extraordinarily effective at preventing bedwetting in young boys.


At ten times that dose per kilogram of body mass it is a POTENT inhibitor of pain receptors. It is supremely good at stopping phantoms pain in amputation and superb in knocking out the transmission of pain in trapped sciatic nerves and if you have ever had that and begged for death to end the pain as I have done you understand ....


At a dose twenty times that, it works well as an antidepressant.  My youngest knows all about that.


It has been doing the rounds for at least half a century ....


Yet in 2013 it was flagged and yellow carded by the CSM as a dangerous hallucinogen.


By ME.


I was prescribed it when I trapped my sciatic nerve. It worked.


But as I drove the S-Max through the Bristol fog on the M4 in December 2012 at 6am so as to get to Honda Swindon to start my shift fixing the mainframe, the Lich King of Tom Bombadil's Barrow congealed from th fog, and sat on the S-Max's bonnet, in Baron Samedi's pose from Live and Let Die..


Because the drug was messing with my optic nerve and triggering random images on the retina. And after half an hour, the potential in every human brain to see Elvis in the face of a boulder on the moon kicked in ....


It also blew my blood pressure to over 200 and my blood sugar to over 40


Today the CSM warnings for amytryptalline include a 1 in 30000 level risk of that, after I skyped a mate in the US about my strange problem, and he (a prof of neurosurgery) pressed the panic button. God, the probing they did after that.


My youngest was taken off it and her medical records day shes never to be given it again, in case it blows her blood pressure and blood sugar like it blew mine...


My sudden and severe drop in INR following administration of the AZ vaccine has been passed to the CSM. What notice they take of this hard evidence at the molecular level of the AZ vaccine seriously increasing clottability in a 63 year old on anticoagulant therapy to avoid a stroke remains to be seen ....

[Streetwalker]

And what about the unknown side effects?  At what point do you understand the word "experimental"?  Is Lemsip experimental?

Drugs stop becoming ''experimental'' when the advice on taking them doesn't include the words might or can . As  I have said all drugs are experimental to some degree . The simple Aspirin has had a chequered journey for instance with plus and minus reviews over the years , Caffeine is good for you one week and bad the next .

Given that all drugs have reactions and possible side effects for some people at what point do you accept a drug as safe and not experimental ?   

[Scott777]

Listening to the radio in the middle of the night there was a chap saying that the known side effects of the AV vaccine are common in most over the counter medicines as is the blood clotting and brain bleeds .

This brought my attention to an article in this mornings Mail , Littlejohn in his unique way ,'You may as well ban Lem Sip' is spot on . The unproven one in a million chance of getting a brain clot having the vaccine  is in the same ball park as taking Lemon flavoured aspirin , Statins ,Ibuprofen or even penicillin .

All medicines carry risk . The list of side effects included in every box of pills we pick up make us potential Guinea pigs . But its a free country (just  ) and we still have the choice what we take and dont take .
Who has made the right or wrong decision ,if there is a right and wrong only time will tell .


A few years ago a friend of mine then in his late 60's was disappointed when his doctor refused to give him some Viagra .''I can't give you that '' his doctor said '' you have high blood pressure and a dicky heart, Haven't you read the side effects ? ''

''Of course I have '' said my friend  ''thats why I want to try it , Iv'e always fancied having a four hour erection ''


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9451281/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Forget-Oxford-jab-ban-Lemsip.html

And what about the unknown side effects?  At what point do you understand the word "experimental"?  Is Lemsip experimental?

[Streetwalker]

There is a big difference between known side effects and unknown side effects, which is why I made it plain from the start, if bits of you dropped off from having a vaccine at some unknown time in the future it was purely voluntary.

When you get your meds be it prescription or over the counter there is a leaflet inside with a list as long as your arm with 'possible' side effects .
As our friend on the Mail says its to cover any possible future  litigation because all meds carry unknown risks in certain people and the drug makers do their best to cover as many bases as possible .

Taking any drug is voluntary you have to weigh up   the risk of taking it against the risk of the illness you are trying to manage or avoid . For me  the vaccine is a clear way forward on the road to normality and is the socially responsible thing to do  . The numbers would back that up .

I haven't got an argument against anyone who doesn't want to take it , its your choice .

[Sheepy]

Listening to the radio in the middle of the night there was a chap saying that the known side effects of the AV vaccine are common in most over the counter medicines as is the blood clotting and brain bleeds .

This brought my attention to an article in this mornings Mail , Littlejohn in his unique way ,'You may as well ban Lem Sip' is spot on . The unproven one in a million chance of getting a brain clot having the vaccine  is in the same ball park as taking Lemon flavoured aspirin , Statins ,Ibuprofen or even penicillin .

All medicines carry risk . The list of side effects included in every box of pills we pick up make us potential Guinea pigs . But its a free country (just  ) and we still have the choice what we take and dont take .
Who has made the right or wrong decision ,if there is a right and wrong only time will tell .


A few years ago a friend of mine then in his late 60's was disappointed when his doctor refused to give him some Viagra .''I can't give you that '' his doctor said '' you have high blood pressure and a dicky heart, Haven't you read the side effects ? ''

''Of course I have '' said my friend  ''thats why I want to try it , Iv'e always fancied having a four hour erection ''


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9451281/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Forget-Oxford-jab-ban-Lemsip.html

There is a big difference between known side effects and unknown side effects, which is why I made it plain from the start, if bits of you dropped off from having a vaccine at some unknown time in the future it was purely voluntary.

[Streetwalker]

Listening to the radio in the middle of the night there was a chap saying that the known side effects of the AV vaccine are common in most over the counter medicines as is the blood clotting and brain bleeds .

This brought my attention to an article in this mornings Mail , Littlejohn in his unique way ,'You may as well ban Lem Sip' is spot on . The unproven one in a million chance of getting a brain clot having the vaccine  is in the same ball park as taking Lemon flavoured aspirin , Statins ,Ibuprofen or even penicillin .

All medicines carry risk . The list of side effects included in every box of pills we pick up make us potential Guinea pigs . But its a free country (just  ) and we still have the choice what we take and dont take .
Who has made the right or wrong decision ,if there is a right and wrong only time will tell .


A few years ago a friend of mine then in his late 60's was disappointed when his doctor refused to give him some Viagra .''I cant give you that '' his doctor said '' you have high blood pressure and a dicky heart, Haven't you read the side effects ? ''

''Of course I have '' said my friend  ''thats why I want to try it , Iv'e always fancied having a four hour erection ''


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9451281/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Forget-Oxford-jab-ban-Lemsip.html

[Sheepy]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/nhs-to-cancel-vaccinations-for-under-30s-after-new-astrazeneca-advice/ar-BB1frBow?ocid=msedgntp
It seems all those NHS staff who refused the vaccine had their reasons. How very dare you try and manipulate people like sheep to take a vaccine without their voluntary consent. Who the feck do you think you are?

[Scott777]

A mate of mine a year older than him died on catching the virus last February . He would still be alive today had the roll out been a couple of months earlier and he got the vaccine .
Im pretty sure he would have taken the minimal chance

You say he died "on catching the virus".  It's a bit like saying he died after breathing some air.  It's meaningless without details.  What was on the death certificate?  And this 'minimal chance' is in fact an unknown chance, until the trials are complete.

[Scott777]

It would seem the scare stories are catching on . My lad got a call to go and get the  AZ jab yesterday as there were spaces .  He went down to the jab centre and reported he was the only person there for the jab with 10 or so cubicles ready and waiting . I do hope this was for other reasons than people taking too much notice of the blood clot .

As has been stated before, the trials are not complete, it's an experiment.  Call me crazy, but I kind of prefer not to be experimented on.

[Streetwalker]

This 59 year old solicitor would still be alive today had he not had the AZ vaccine. It's not a scare story, but his sister recommends other people do the same as her brother, because he was "just very unlucky".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56675665

A mate of mine a year older than him died on catching the virus last February . He would still be alive today had the roll out been a couple of months earlier and he got the vaccine .
Im pretty sure he would have taken the minimal chance

[Barry]

It would seem the scare stories are catching on . My lad got a call to go and get the  AZ jab yesterday as there were spaces .  He went down to the jab centre and reported he was the only person there for the jab with 10 or so cubicles ready and waiting . I do hope this was for other reasons than people taking too much notice of the blood clot .

This 59 year old solicitor would still be alive today had he not had the AZ vaccine. It's not a scare story, but his sister recommends other people do the same as her brother, because he was "just very unlucky".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56675665

[Sheepy]

It would seem the scare stories are catching on . My lad got a call to go and get the  AZ jab yesterday as there were spaces .  He went down to the jab centre and reported he was the only person there for the jab with 10 or so cubicles ready and waiting . I do hope this was for other reasons than people taking too much notice of the blood clot .

A political virus with a political outcome.