Reason To Take Vaccine

[Sheepy]

That's really unfair.

Not as unfair as threatening to lock people up and remove their rights of recourse, while forcing them to take a vaccine that actually does nothing it says on the bottle.

[T00ts]

And that is Scott why you shouldn't waste your breath and time on these people, they are already long gone down their path.

That's really unfair. 

[Sheepy]

I am sure the race is already on to combat the new variant hopefully before it gets too far out of Africa. If the virus continues there will come a time when vaccination will have to be compulsory or those unprepared will have to isolate out of society. I hope it never comes to that but thankfully many of us are prepared to do it for those who won't.

And that is Scott why you shouldn't waste your breath and time on these people, they are already long gone down their path.

[HDQQ]

All the evidence I've seen on the media from scientists and other medical experts is that the anti-covid vaccines are very effective at preventing serious illness or death from covid-19 and quite effective at preventing becoming ill at all. Also vaccinated people, if infected, are less infectious to others. But nobody ever claimed they would be 100% effective. I'm always going to believe real experts over fake news, malicious propaganda and uninformed crackpot theories. I mean, it would be possible to construct a theory that the Falklands War never happened and some people would believe it.

Now there's this new variant on the loose, first detected in South Africa. Nobody knows yet whether it's more transmissible or more dangerous than existing variants or whether it is resistant to vaccines.

[Sheepy]

So on that note, I have just seen two friends of mine who are both recovering from Covid who at the start they were going on about the vaccines and I said bollox if you are going to get it like the flu you will be getting it, they both said you were right but we weren't as bad as some who were hospitalised, so I said how do you know you were better than others because of the vaccine, they said well actually we don't, so without realising it, Nick said the same thing about him and his wife.

[T00ts]

I don't think I've made specific claims about how dangerous the vaccines are, I've said, many times, we don't really know, because it's still on trial, and deaths are not being investigated and/or reported.  That's a big problem.  If we don't know, then it cannot be called safe.  If you cross a road wearing a blindfold, even though there may be no cars coming, you don't know, which makes it unsafe from your perspective.  Maybe the vaccine will not cause many deaths or injuries, maybe it will, we don't know, which makes it unsafe, by definition.  Do you think it's ok to vaccinate everyone, and then just wait and see?

Is the truth that you don't really trust the science, any science? You have gone to great lengths to display the arguments against trusting the vaccine and the web is full of them but the risk of getting covid, for me, outweighs the risk from the vaccine. It is new in the way it works so the fear is that the science seeing its benefit is wrong. I don't agree. They may well yet improve on it no doubt. No-one is claiming that it is perfect but no doubt they are still working frantically to improve it. 
They have been very careful about injecting younger and younger people for all the reasons that are out there. All vaccines, all meds even antibiotics that we have relied on for so long, by the way I am known to be allergic to some, will have examples of those whose biological makeup doesn't accept it. How many years of tests would make everyone confident? How many years would it take for the test samples to measure up to what they have now? Because so many have been jabbed and reported findings, we are a long way ahead of where we were 18 months ago. Normal testing/research would have taken years.
In the beginning it was a real test of faith. Those first meds etc and the first in line for jabs need a medal. This pandemic has taken the whole world by storm and continues to do so. To sit back and wait the usual 3-10 yrs for repeated testing would have been catastrophic. So far people have been given the choice except where it is deemed a risk to others. That's fair enough. however I am confident and I believe that most are the same as me, that without us taking the risk we would have far more coffins than we have had. I am sure the race is already on to combat the new variant hopefully before it gets too far out of Africa. If the virus continues there will come a time when vaccination will have to be compulsory or those unprepared will have to isolate out of society. I hope it never comes to that but thankfully many of us are prepared to do it for those who won't.

[Scott777]

Like you said, we have to wait until the end to find the results. But either side making claims at the moment is futile.

I don't think I've made specific claims about how dangerous the vaccines are, I've said, many times, we don't really know, because it's still on trial, and deaths are not being investigated and/or reported.  That's a big problem.  If we don't know, then it cannot be called safe.  If you cross a road wearing a blindfold, even though there may be no cars coming, you don't know, which makes it unsafe from your perspective.  Maybe the vaccine will not cause many deaths or injuries, maybe it will, we don't know, which makes it unsafe, by definition.  Do you think it's ok to vaccinate everyone, and then just wait and see?

[Scott777]

Using ONS excess deaths I'd put the figure at 35 to 40 thousand.

You need to show what caused the excess.

[Nick]

"and all had serious health conditions that could account for the cause of death."  You've got to read it first, Nick.

Like you said, we have to wait until the end to find the results. But either side making claims at the moment is futile. 

[Nick]

Here we go with more claims.  What is "a large number".  Is it 7?  That's definitely larger than 6.  If I am holding 7 oranges, that's a large number of oranges to be able to hold.  Could you be precise, and then provide evidence?  Thank you so much.

Using ONS excess deaths I'd put the figure at 35 to 40 thousand. 

[papasmurf]

  I'm not telling people not to take it, I'm providing facts so they can make a better decision.

Providing facts?

[Scott777]

If I was against it, I wouldn't have taken the logical approach from the start, no they were given the choice with outcomes pointed out for them, I am not anti-choice, they had the choice just like you did, they don't have a mandate to force anyone and until they take a referendum on it they never will. Now at the moment the British Government although sailing close to the wind at times haven't gone that far and they like everyone else have been shown the outcome of stepping over the line. So, my point still stands why would I want to convince someone who has made a choice that they are wrong when as time is showing them, they might well be. If they are then there is no silence that speaks volumes more than their own demise.

As far as I'm concerned, the guv crossed the line when care homes sacked people.  The fact that they went that far, suggests they would go further.  The only reason for them to stop, is if lots of people say no.  I'm not telling people not to take it, I'm providing facts so they can make a better decision.   If other people were not out protesting, campaigning and talking on social media, it would be much worse by now.

[Sheepy]

It's crucial.  If so many people think it's all fine, then eventually, we will all have to take it.  The only way through this is to wake people up.  You seem against that?

If I was against it, I wouldn't have taken the logical approach from the start, no they were given the choice with outcomes pointed out for them, I am not anti-choice, they had the choice just like you did, they don't have a mandate to force anyone and until they take a referendum on it they never will. Now at the moment the British Government although sailing close to the wind at times haven't gone that far and they like everyone else have been shown the outcome of stepping over the line. So, my point still stands why would I want to convince someone who has made a choice that they are wrong when as time is showing them, they might well be. If they are then there is no silence that speaks volumes more than their own demise. 

[Scott777]

So why would you care if they are keeling over in their millions or thousands or one at a time, as long as they don't take you with them? I have and you have and Barry has done all we could, being right about it, isn't our problem it is theirs and if true a short one at that.

It's crucial.  If so many people think it's all fine, then eventually, we will all have to take it.  The only way through this is to wake people up.  You seem against that?

[Scott777]

Any numbers to compare with the Flu jab?

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/spotlights/2020-2021/death-south-korea-following-flu-vaccination.htm

"and all had serious health conditions that could account for the cause of death."  You've got to read it first, Nick.