Brexit: Driver's 'illegal' ham sandwiches seized at Dutch border under EU rules

[Thomas]

I recognise that those who wish for a second indy ref will be using this as a pretext to get one.

and they have every right to.

While I wholeheartedly supported and indeed advocated for the first Indy ref, I do not for a second.

too bad. You dont have a vote or a say outwith an opinion on an obscure politcal forum.

The first is to be respected or none can be.

The first has been respected. We implemented the result in 2014 , or we wouldnt be here just now talking about it as scotland wouldnt be in the union.So what are you talking about?

Now its time for another. Only anti demcorats like you and your government dont like deomcrayc , but as we saw with brexit , look how that turns out in the end.

[Baff]

his point skewers your argument.

You claim northern ireland isnt still in the eu , he says otherwise , and he knows far better than you.

doesnt matter baffy , you are waffling on and wriggling on the hook.

You said brexit was a uk wide vote , so scotland has to leave , and when i point out the big fly in your ointment about northern ireland , with promient politicians and links backing up what im saying , you start wriggling on a load of rubbish.

He and I have differening opinions.
Both are allowed.

Scotland wasn't in the EU.
It didn't leave the EU because it was never a member of the EU.
Nor did it ever have a vote on EU membership.

You are attributing sovereignty to Scotland that it simply never had and indeed recently voted not to have.

[Thomas]

I think he has a point.
But I also think he is attempting to make political capital out of this.

his point skewers your argument.

You claim northern ireland isnt still in the eu , he says otherwise , and he knows far better than you.

And I think it is too early for myself to weigh judgement onthe success or failure of the current arrangements.

My saftey net is twofold.
One the UK can cancel the agreement and two NI gets to vote on it in 4 years time.

doesnt matter baffy , you are waffling on and wriggling on the hook.

You said brexit was a uk wide vote , so scotland has to leave , and when i point out the big fly in your ointment about northern ireland , with promient politicians and links backing up what im saying , you start wriggling on a load of rubbish.

[Baff]

...but northern ireland got to deal with the eu on its own terms.

As for the rest of your sentence , im not claiming any of this semantic rubbish. Im saying there should now be a new referendum to determine if scotland wants to stay in brexit uk or not.


sure , the referendum vote was held in 2014 ,and the result implemented.

Democracy though is a neverendum , and we need a new vote now to determine if scots agree with the constitutional route the uk is taking outside the eu.

I recognise that those who wish for a second indy ref will be using this as a pretext to get one.
While I wholeheartedly supported and indeed advocated for the first Indy ref, I do not for a second.
The first is to be respected or none can be.

[Baff]

Heres ian og paisley , prominent northern irish politician , calling you out for the nonsense you are talking .

https://twitter.com/duponline/status/1356950712886972417


are you now even trying to say ian paisley is wrong regarding northern ireland remaining in the eu?

You are making yourself look daft baffy.

I think he has a point.
But I also think he is attempting to make political capital out of this.

And I think it is too early for myself to weigh judgement on the success or failure of the current arrangements.

My saftey net is twofold.
One the UK can cancel the agreement and two, NI gets to vote on it in 4 years time.

Like Ian Paisley I am uncomfortable with the situation.
I understand how we got there and wish it had gone differently. But it did not.

[Thomas]

I disagree.
A vote remain in the UK union was vote to deal with the EU as part of the UK and not as an individual nation called Scotland. Which was not and has never been an EU member.

...but northern ireland got to deal with the eu on its own terms.

As for the rest of your sentence , im not claiming any of this semantic rubbish. Im saying there should now be a new referendum to determine if scotland wants to stay in brexit uk or not.

As an adult each of the Scots were empowered to make take this decision for themselves and live with the consequences of any decsions they chose to make as a collective entity known as "the Scots".
They have done so and that is to be respected.

sure , the referendum vote was held in 2014 ,and the result implemented.

Democracy though is a neverendum , and we need a new vote now to determine if scots agree with the constitutional route the uk is taking outside the eu.

[Thomas]

The point you were making is incorrect.

Heres ian og paisley , prominent northern irish politician , calling you out for the nonsense you are talking .

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Ian Paisley MP says "the Protocol has betrayed us, and has made us feel like foreigners in our own country," and calls on @BorisJohnson
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https://twitter.com/duponline/status/1356950712886972417


are you now even trying to say ian paisley is wrong regarding northern ireland remaining in the eu?

You are making yourself look daft baffy.

[Baff]

I disagree.
A vote remain in the UK union was vote to deal with the EU as part of the UK and not as an individual nation called Scotland. Which was not and has never been an EU member.

As an adult each of the Scots were empowered to make take this decision for themselves and live with the consequences of any decisions they chose to make as a collective entity known as "the Scots".
They have done so and that is to be respected.

[Thomas]

The point you were making is incorrect.
An attempt to twist our understanding of EU membership into something it was not in order to make political capital on another issue.

The point i am making is correct , and you know it , and cant man up and admit it because it blows your argument about a uk vote right out the window.

[Thomas]

I would suggest to you that NI Remains part of the EU single market in a limited capacity.
It's not an EU member.

stop trying to argue semantics.

Northern ireland , as everyone knows , is for all intents and purposes remaining i nthe eu. I know it , you know it ,and more improtantly most scottish people see it and know it.

They voted remain , and got remain.

I just supplied two of many links that say you are talking nonsense.

[Thomas]

Correction. This was (or wasn't) a reason for them to vote indy.
And they have done so.

Nope.

In 2014 , staying in the uk to stay in the eu was a key plank of the union argument. So when many  pro european people voted to remain in the uk  , and then england voted leave two years later , it obviouslt angered many scots.

So they dont now agree with england taking the uk out the eu , and it clearly is a valid argument for another indy ref.

Your government  , being extremely anti democratic , is refusing much to the amusement of the snp which is now clearly fdriving indy supprot through the roof.

[Baff]

i didnt say they did. Stop being disingenuous when you know fine well the point im making.

The point you were making is incorrect.
An attempt to twist our understanding of EU membership into something it was not in order to make political capital on another issue.

[Baff]

oopsypost

[Baff]

Doesnt matter , you dont have a vote on it either way.
i personally couldnt give a feck about the eu , but wether you like it or not many scots do , and this is a reason for them to vote for indy.

It is an honest argument to point out unionists used the eu as a mjor plank back in 2014 foir the no vote , and now dont like it being cast back in theri faces.

I would say its very honest

Correction. This was (or wasn't) a reason for them to vote indy.
And they have done so.

[Baff]

northern ireland is part of the uk and it has remained in the eu. What are you talking about?
Are you now arguing black is white baffy?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55488686
https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/the-uk-has-left-the-eu-but-northern-34228/

I would suggest to you that NI Remains part of the EU single market in a limited capacity.
It's not an EU member.

The exact limitations are unclear at this time.
On the surface of it they are sensible.
Rabbies control over an open border is impossible.
Cross border farms need to be allowed to have the same crops on both sides of it.
Etc.

Is however the workable reality panning out or is it the EU trying to get revenge or use this as leverage against the UK?
Time will tell.

I don't have a lot of faith in the EU's "good faith" which is why I see it as unfinished business still.