Brexit: Driver's 'illegal' ham sandwiches seized at Dutch border under EU rules

[Thomas]

Barry , please explain why northern irish people are still classed as EU citizens if nortehrn irieland isnt in the eu?

There's One Place in the UK You Can Still Be an EU Citizen

Britain's Home Office has announced that people from Northern Ireland will be treated as EU citizens within the UK for immigration purposes

https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7gbwd/northern-ireland-citizens-still-part-of-eu

[Thomas]

heres another one of johnson betrayal over northern ireland you seem keen to bury your head i nthe sand over barry.

A former Brexit Party MEP has accused Boris Johnson of deceiving voters over his commitment at the last general election and claimed that he is not delivering the Brexit people voted for.

Ben Habib, who was a politician representing Nigel Farage's party, claimed that the public did not vote by 52% to 48% to have left Northern Ireland "largely in the EU" - despite the fact that part of the country voted 56% to Remain.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/westminster-news/boris-johnson-accused-of-deceiving-voters-over-brexit-6863868

Nigel Farage urges Britons to sign Brexit petition as he piles pressure onto Boris Johnson

The Brexiteer took to Twitter to warn Northern Ireland is being "cut off" from the rest of the UK with trade. Mr Farage shared a petition started by DUP leader Arlene Foster and called on others to add their names.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1393662/brexit-news-nigel-farage-article-16-arlene-foster-northern-ireland-boris-johnson-eu

talk about being totally in denial barry.

[Thomas]

Thomas is using the argument that Scotland is the only country which did not have its way in the Brexit referendum. Whilst falsely asserting that Northern Ireland is still in the EU.

Well barry , im in shock.

Are you actually suggesting to all intents and purposes that northern ireland isnt in the eu? Farage has made many angry speeches over it , unionists are accusing boris of betrayal over it , and many toires are privately unhappy about it.

heres what farage said.

Nigel Farage


This new EU Treaty is the modern day equivalent of the Treaty of Versailles. We have a reparations bill of £39bn we must pay for nothing in return. We have the annexation of part of our territory in Northern Ireland. It is unacceptable, it is not Brexit and it will not pass.

I even posted ian paisleys thoughts on it a few times.

Yet because you can't handle that clear and unambiguous fact , you go  into denial becuase it doesnt suit your brexit narrative that scotland has to leave the eu while northern ireland got to stay.

Unbelievable.

He wants constituent parts of a national vote treated separately so why no individual regions if they vote that way?

Scotland isnt a region , its a nation of the uk. Which is why your national parliament agreed to having a constituent part of the uk having a referendum in 2014....where i got to vote , but you didnt .

So what are you talking about?

I'm just pointing out that democratic votes cannot work like that,

No you are being disingenuous. Gibraltar isnt part of the uk , it voted in brexit , and northern ireland has been allowed to stay , so your argument doesnt back up in any way.

I could accept your point if northern ireland had been taken out as well , but that  still wouldnt negate scotland from having another vote  .

You are being as anti demcortic as the very remainers you argued with over the last four years , and even cromwell can see your arguments dont hold any water despite the fact he doesnt politically agree with me.

[Barry]

Eh?
Because they would be voting as a country,there was the argument that the Shetland isles would like their independence from Scotland in the event they left the union,no reason they shouldn't but you can't take it down to individual regions in mainland Scotland.

Thomas is using the argument that Scotland is the only country which did not have its way in the Brexit referendum. Whilst falsely asserting that Northern Ireland is still in the EU.
He wants constituent parts of a national vote treated separately so why no individual regions if they vote that way?
I'm just pointing out that democratic votes cannot work like that, otherwise, eventually it would come down to the individual to decide which decisions to abide by - that's anarchy.

[Thomas]

By the way biffo , the 300 000 people werent expected to vote for indy.

It had been a long standing policy and wish of people like salmond to allow 16 17 year olds the vote , with all the accompaniying arguments over the years. He hoped they would vote for indy , which isnt the same thing .

Also , salmond passionately believed no matter where you were born , if you stay in a country you should have the vote. Thats why  scottish resident english , irish ,welsh , eu citizens were all allowed to vote in scotlands indy ref.

From my point of view , i agree , it was a clear mistake.

As the university of edinburgh pointed out , had indy ref been restricted to scots born only living in scotland , with scottish birth certificates , then the native scots born voted for independence by a majority.

( by a larger majority than the 51.89%  brexiters got.)

Independence referendum figures revealed: Majority of Scots born here voted YES while voters from elsewhere in UK said NO

While 52.7 per cent of native-born Scots voted Yes, a massive 72.1 per cent of voters from England, Wales or Northern Ireland backed the Union.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-figures-revealed-majority-5408163

Thats the difference though with parties like the snp , and parties like the tories . The snp  , like labour and the liberals are more concerned with holier than thou ideas of equality and decency , while the tories are more ruthless , which is why theytend to win referendums and elections more often than nought.

[Thomas]

@ biffo.

If you dont understand 62 % of the electorate is bigger than 55 % of the electorate , i suggest its you who needs maths lessons.

Further , the very same people you are bigging up as voting for the union in 2014 , as i pointed out , you and your ilk banned them from voting in 2016 , hence the discrepancy in numbers for the brexit ref compared to the scot indy ref.

Democracy is a never endum.......where peoples opinion are tested on a regular basis. Im sorry you cant handle that , what next though?

Next time your favourite party is elected into government , are you gonnae suggest thats it forevermore....no more elections incase baffy loses next time?

Thankfully baffy , despite all our differing opinions , people like you are in a tiny mnority. The vast majority of us respect democracy  , unlike you who only respects democracy when it suits.

[Thomas]

Suppose Scotland has this IndyRef2.
Will it be done at constituency, town hall, or parish level.
Will the areas that vote to remain in the UK be allowed to remain?

If not, why not?

Scotland doesnt have parishes barry , and hasnt done since before the second world war.

It will be based on the same franchise as indy ref 1 i would imagine.

All 32 council areas of scotland voted to remain in the eu , did you support that in 2016?If not  , why not?

Further  , when patman post suggested a while back london be allowed to remain in the eu due to the popular vote , you were one of the ones scoffing at him for saying that.

Scotland isnt northern ireland barry , with unionist and nationalist enclaves. Most of us live happily side by side people with differing political views on the constitution , but sadly for you , the vast majority are as one when it comes to EU membership.

[cromwell]

Suppose Scotland has this IndyRef2.
Will it be done at constituency, town hall, or parish level.
Will the areas that vote to remain in the UK be allowed to remain?

If not, why not?

Eh?
Because they would be voting as a country,there was the argument that the Shetland isles would like their independence from Scotland in the event they left the union,no reason they shouldn't but you can't take it down to individual regions in mainland Scotland.

[Baff]

i meant  to say to you about this pile of steaming cac right here baffy.

Apart from the fact you can only base you results on those who bother turning out at election time , unless you force people to vote , you do realise the scot indy ref of 2014 had a far higher eligible electorate than normal?

So not ony did 2014 have some 300 000 more voters  , with 16/17 year olds and eu citizens  , who dont normally have voting rights in many elections , and certainly didnt in scotland for the 2016 brexit ref , but the 2014 turnout was one of the highest in scotlands history.

So those very self same eu citizens by and large voted to remain in the eu in 2014 .

You can only beat what is in front of you baffy , and 62 % of the turnout is a far far higher margin of 55 % of the turnout by any measure.

I'm afraid I don't real care for any lame excuses.
Nor do I care for statistical deceit.

If your maths is not up to understanding what a % means in terms of actual numbers, that is one thing. Once it has been explained to you however to persist in this twaddle can only be taken as an attempt to deceive.

You want another vote. Because you didn't get your way.
This is not democracy.

Those people who won that vote are to be respected.
And if you do not they simply have no reason to engage further with you democratically whatsoever. And they would be fools to do so.

And I haven't seen a single union voter call for a second referendum yet. Not one.
I am not reasonably able to conclude that this is anything more that yet another sour grapes attempt to overturn the vote.


Now, the 300,000 you mention were allowed to vote because Pro Indy people expected that they would vote for independence. In all likelihood, your percentages would have been even less favourable had you excluded them. You would have lost by a bigger margin.
It wasn't even a fair vote you lost. It was one that was rigged in your favour with Scots living in the rest of the UK denied a vote and with extra young people drafted in to vote in your favour.
You really lost. You called the game. Everyone played it by your rules and you lost it. Could not have been fairer to you in this.
And now you have to live with the consequences.
I appreciate that this does not suit and I appreciate why.
But there are other peoples concerns and they are equal to yours as an individual and outwiegh yours as a group by nature of their superior numbers.

There is no solution to your problem that you are going to like.
Because all the ones you suggest cause more problems for other people than the reverse does for you.

[Barry]

Suppose Scotland has this IndyRef2.
Will it be done at constituency, town hall, or parish level.
Will the areas that vote to remain in the UK be allowed to remain?

If not, why not?

[Thomas]

how many votes was that?

Oh yes.

1.8 million voted for the EU.
2 million voted for the UK.

So you lose on that argument. Sorry.
Support for the EU<support for the union according to referendum results.

i meant  to say to you about this pile of steaming cac right here baffy.

Apart from the fact you can only base you results on those who bother turning out at election time , unless you force people to vote , you do realise the scot indy ref of 2014 had a far higher eligible electorate than normal?

So not ony did 2014 have some 300 000 more voters  , with 16/17 year olds and eu citizens  , who dont normally have voting rights in many elections , and certainly didnt in scotland for the 2016 brexit ref , but the 2014 turnout was one of the highest in scotlands history.

So those very self same eu citizens by and large voted to remain in the eu in 2014 .

You can only beat what is in front of you baffy , and 62 % of the turnout is a far far higher margin of 55 % of the turnout by any measure.

[Thomas]

imo rejoining the eu would be a mistake if you gain independence.

of course cromwell , and in an indy scotland , i will probably argue the same thing. However , i will stand up and defends scotlands right to have a say on the matter unlike anti democratic baffy.

[Thomas]

Despite supporting the union (which doesn't mean westminster riding roughshod over Scotland) I cannot argue with your logic,you lost out on the right to remain in the eu,you are therefore are entitled to another indyref imo rejoining the eu would be a mistake if you gain independence.

thanks cromwell , you are a democrat and a gentleman who displays his honesty.

I can't believe some of the arguments this baffy clown was using in this thread.

Im not suggesting to anyone that they should support scottish indy , but for baffy to tell me he denies scottish democracy , doesnt want us voting except when it suits , will use force to stop scotland leaving , as well as all the other extreme twists and turns including being in denial about northern irelands situation , i really am at a loss for words.

To think people of that intellect actually have the right to vote.

[cromwell]

I voted remain , as did the vast majority of scotland , albiet i am as i have told you extremely lukewarm about the EU.


How would you like it if the eu had voted on brexit referendum , and the 450 million european majority had outvoted the 55 million english , while you were being told you arent a country , but merely a region of europe?

Scotland is a nation that is supposed to be in a union with england , we arent a region of england.

Despite supporting the union (which doesn't mean westminster riding roughshod over Scotland) I cannot argue with your logic,you lost out on the right to remain in the eu,you are therefore are entitled to another indyref imo rejoining the eu would be a mistake if you gain independence.

[Thomas]

Honestly baffy you are a one man walking anti democratic advert for scottish independence.

I wish we could get you on some of the scottish forums , you are a vote printing machine.