Brexit: Driver's 'illegal' ham sandwiches seized at Dutch border under EU rules

[Thomas]

62% is not bigger than 55%.
Sorry.

( barry is this an example of baffys great debating)?

[Baff]

@ biffo.

If you dont understand 62 % of the electorate is bigger than 55 % of the electorate , i suggest its you who needs maths lessons.

Further , the very same people you are bigging up as voting for the union in 2014 , as i pointed out , you and your ilk banned them from voting in 2016 , hence the discrepancy in numbers for the brexit ref compared to the scot indy ref.

Democracy is a never endum.......where peoples opinion are tested on a regular basis. Im sorry you can't handle that , what next though?

Next time your favourite party is elected into government , are you gonnae suggest thats it forevermore....no more elections incase baffy loses next time?

Thankfully baffy , despite all our differing opinions , people like you are in a tiny mnority. The vast majority of us respect democracy  , unlike you who only respects democracy when it suits.

62% is not bigger than 55%.
Sorry.

Learn simple maths.
62% of a small number < 55% of a large number.

You know this. It's been explained to you and the actual numbers from your example given.
So don't be a liar. That doesn't help you with anything other than getting your concerns justifiably ignored by everyone.


I don't have any favourite party Thomas.
I have never voted for any party in my life.

I have cast one vote and one vote only.


"Democracy is a neverendum".
I do not believe even for one second that you would now be saying this if you had won the referendum.
This is a fundamentally dishonest statement. An argument of convenience and not principle.

Neither is what you are asking for something you can drop in and out of every 4 years.

[Thomas]

If you say so.


But I can't see how this actually worked.


The SNP position was to secede from the Union whilst demanding of the EU the right to remain a member despite the warnings from one of the five EU president's (Barosso, I think) that such a move would relegate BOTH Scotland and the Rump of the UK to third party states.

Sure but guy verhofstadt said to scotland there would be no big problem about an indy scotland joining the eu .







so despite unionists desperate attempt to cling to barrossos words , many in the eu and europe  took the opposite position that had scotland ended the uk , an indy scotland would have no big issues immediately rejoining in line with what salmond said .

I cannot myself see how this argument that the UK would remain in the EU would WORK as a carrot to a party and a following who were already committed to seek EU membership as an independent state.

of course you can't john but we can see it , which is why most of scotland is up in arms about eu membership much to your dissaproval.

[johnofgwent]

Everybody knows , apart from barry and biffo , that the key plank in the unionist argument in 2014 , was to dangle the pro eu carrot in front of pro eu majority scottish to make us vote to stay in the uk.

If you say so.


But I can't see how this actually worked.


The SNP position was to secede from the Union whilst demanding of the EU the right to remain a member despite the warnings from one of the five EU president's (Barosso, I think) that such a move would relegate BOTH Scotland and the Rump of the UK to third party states.


Now, leaving aside the accuracy of that warning, I cannot myself see how this argument that the UK would remain in the EU would WORK as a carrot to a party and a following who were already committed to seek EU membership as an independent state.

[Thomas]

I'm glad you know that.

I'm ambivalent, so I don't know how that makes me a Unionist or any other sort of IST.

Baff's doing a great job of debating. I'll get back into the cheering crowds.

Of course the same people who have been telling me for a decade or more on these forums that they are ambivalent to this british prison are normally the same ones the first to shout in defence of it.

As for baffy , baffy is great . He is a clear example of the very swivel eyed anglo brexiting loon that disgusts most scottish people to the core , and embarresses the more sane and decent brexiters. What did cameron once call baffy and his ilk , loonies fruitcakes and racists?

Im enjoying debating with him  , its hilarious listening to him.

Ive been "debating " with two guys who couldnt spell scotland , thinks scotland has parishes , northern ireland isnt in the eu , and refuse to accept reality outside their own personal bubbles.

[Barry]

I appreciate you are a unionist barry ,

I'm glad you know that.

I'm ambivalent, so I don't know how that makes me a Unionist or any other sort of IST.

Baff's doing a great job of debating. I'll get back into the cheering crowds.

[Thomas]

No what is being said is that Scotland was persuaded to vote to stay in the union on the basis they would lose eu membership if they left,in the brexit referendum the majority vote was to remain in the eu,whilst they are in the UK they have to abide by the wider vote but circumstances mean they are entitled to another indyref (and then it's up to them to rejoin the eu or not) that is not anarchy Baz it's democracy.

Everybody knows , apart from barry and biffo , that the key plank in the unionist argument in 2014 , was to dangle the pro eu carrot in front of pro eu majority scottish to make us vote to stay in the uk.

We all know it , the polls show it , that the vast majority of scots who voted for the status quo of both uk and eu membership are angry about scotland being taken out the eu , and getting even more angry about northern ireland for all intents and purposes despite barrys semantics and total utter in denial wriggling  , remaining in the eu despite scotland being told the opposite.

If this is what the uk has become  , then i certainly want feck all to do with people like barry and biffo , who would use force , anti demcoratic means , deny any vote , divide scotland up as a punishment and attempt to use any and every menas possible to force scottish people to remain in what is effectively a uk prison , to suit barry and biffos delusion of grandeur.

What matters cromwell is what is being said on scottish doorsteps regarding this issue , not what barry is in denial about on some obscure internet forum. Im not surpsied in the least regarding mad biffos point of view on this thread , i am suprised by barry.

Arlene foster oganising DUP petitions and railing against johnson leaving northern ireland in the eu , farage paisly and many other prominent politicians demanding johnson ends northern irelands place in the eu , not to mention many have pointed out what the uk government has done regarding trade in northern ireland breaks the old treaty of union which states trade will remain the same throughout the united kingdo and patently this isnt the case.

Shocking example of barrys head in the sand in utter total denial almost flat earth like. All because of a silly point he is losing on some obscure political forum.

[Thomas]

No what is being said is that Scotland was persuaded to vote to stay in the union on the basis they would lose eu membership if they left,in the brexit referendum the majority vote was to remain in the eu,whilst they are in the UK they have to abide by the wider vote but circumstances mean they are entitled to another indyref (and then it's up to them to rejoin the eu or not) that is not anarchy Baz it's democracy.

unionism in barrys case appears to want to make a dictator out of someone i once thought of as a democrat cromwell.

[cromwell]

Thomas is using the argument that Scotland is the only country which did not have its way in the Brexit referendum. Whilst falsely asserting that Northern Ireland is still in the EU.
He wants constituent parts of a national vote treated separately so why no individual regions if they vote that way?
I'm just pointing out that democratic votes cannot work like that, otherwise, eventually it would come down to the individual to decide which decisions to abide by - that's anarchy.

No what is being said is that Scotland was persuaded to vote to stay in the union on the basis they would lose eu membership if they left,in the brexit referendum the majority vote was to remain in the eu,whilst they are in the UK they have to abide by the wider vote but circumstances mean they are entitled to another indyref (and then it's up to them to rejoin the eu or not) that is not anarchy Baz it's democracy.

[Thomas]

I agree that Northern Ireland has a different relationship with the EU which is temporary.
It is not in the EU.

They have eu citizenship , while you voted for it to be taken away.

They have a differing trading relationship than what you do , and eu law still applies in northern ireland . There is customs checks between northern ireland and the rest of the uk , and northern ireland is subject to al lthe eu customes rules while the rUK is not.

Regulation

Northern Ireland will also be obliged to align with specific EU rules.

In particular, it will have to stick to the rules of the EU's Single Market, in areas such as technical regulation of goods, agricultural and environmental production and regulation, state aid and other areas of north–south co-operation between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

Northern Ireland will also remain part of the Single Electricity Market.

Northern Ireland would need to automatically adopt any changes to these regulations made by the EU. New areas of regulation can be added to the protocol through agreement at the Joint Committee

All the red lines you said had to be universally the same all over the uk dont apply in northern ireland , so you are merely arguing semantics.

No one is fooled but you and biffo on this thread barry.

You carry on with your head in the sand though.

Enforcement and supervision

Northern Ireland's compliance with EU rules is enforced by the European Commission and the European Court of Justice.

EU institutions will also enforce arrangements relating to customs in Northern Ireland.

[Barry]

I agree that Northern Ireland has a different relationship with the EU which is temporary.
It is not in the EU.

[Thomas]

Is Northern Ireland waiting for vaccines from the EU Thomas?

nope and i havent claimed they are barry. You are merely clutching at straws to prop up a weak if not non existant argument.

As far as i know northern ireland is streets ahead of the republic and the eu  in vaccination terms, but that doesnt mean you are right and i am wrong about northern ireland eu status , which you have completely ignored not only what im saying but prominent politicans are saying as you can't stomach the fact northern ireland has gotten remain as it voted remain in your "uk wide" brexit referendum.

Dont think we wont be using this fact on scottish doorsteps , you might be in denial about it , but we are pointing it out to every scottish man woman and child.

[Thomas]

Northern Ireland is still part of the United Kingdom and the United Kingdom has left the EU.
Is Northern Ireland waiting for vaccines from the EU Thomas?

Despite telling me for the last five years that brexit was a uk vote , so we all had to leave , no matter how you dress it up or argue semantics barry , the fact remains northern ireland has a different relationship with the Eu than the rest of the uk has , northern ireland has a trading  border between it and the rest of the uk , and the uk government are treating northern irish citizens different form the rest of the uk in terms of them retaining eu citizenship.

I appreciate you are a unionist barry , and can respect a difference in opinion as i have with many on these boards , but you are now bordering if not completely , in denial, regarding northern irelands EU status.

[Barry]

Northern Ireland is still part of the United Kingdom and the United Kingdom has left the EU.
Is Northern Ireland waiting for vaccines from the EU Thomas?

[Thomas]

Here barry , dont take my word for it. Heres nigel farage , a politican you have said in the past you respect and support , and ian og  , a prominent northern irish unionist politician calling out your denial about northern ireland european union status , and talking about the new border that exists between GB and northern ireland.

From the horses mouth..

https://youtu.be/8yG6mmKgAZM

Ian paisley ," we had a border on the island of ireland , we now have a second border between northern ireland and the rest of the uk.....how many borders do we blinking need?"

Nigel farage" my real concern is there is now abarrier been put up within the united kingdom"