Tier 6

[Thomas]

The bottom line here is do you accept the world has been hit by a pandemic or not and do you believe that the vaccines are the way out ?   Im a yes on both ,I guess your a No .
Look I dont like it any more than you do ,the cost in financial terms that will take a generation to put right ,the cancellation of cancer and other life saving treatments  has been a terrible downside to saving covid patients .
Democracy is of course important but I fail to see why you feel its threatened  . The vaccines are being rolled out ,the light is at the end of the tunnel and we just need to hang on in there for maybe a few more months and we can all put this behind us and get back to some sort of normality .

Most countries locked down in one way or another ,ours was weak and vague , Sweden decided not to . They have had better results than some and worse than others . The demography of different  countries obviously plays a part as does the mindset of the population in either keeping safe or ignoring the advice .

To be honest   seeing government restrictions  during  a pandemic as some sort of power grab by the global elites and the end of our democratic rights is the reasoning of conspiracy theorists .

Be careful out there .

streetwalker i agree with the general sentiment of your post , but can i just say i dont agree with this recurring theme that the virus has spread because of covid idiots and all the other names being bandied about.

If you read what the likes of professor devi sridhar has said time and again , instead of the media hysteria and name calling , the virus by its very nature will spread and infect naturally.

Devi Sridhar has been emphasising since last march that you can lock down , follow all the rules you like , but the virus will not go away contrary to what certain individuals and media say.

People then cast up places like new zealand and point to what jacinda ardern has done. New zealand have indeed stopped the virus in their country , but they havent elmininated it......everytime a foreigner comes into the country they potentially bring the virus with them as the virus hasnt gone away.

New zealand is sparsely popualted (on a par with scotland) and if im not mistaken the size of the british isles , but with tasmania and oz , they are thousands of miles away from large popualtion centres , unlike us who have europe and hundreds of millions on our doorstep.

So small sparsely popualted remote nations may have a chance of stopping the virus in their locality , but if no vaccine came about , they would be at the mercy of covid forevermore as the good professor says until eventuallly one way or the other the virus had infected everyone on the planet and some form of immunity had been bult up.

The lockdowns for us were only about buying time , not eliminating the threat of the virus , and most people contrary to media hysteria have been spot on following rules.

Places of large popualtion centres like london  and glasgow as well are no comparison....how the feck do city dwellers avoid spreading the virus compared to some remote moutain village in new zealand?

Im not having a pop mate , but i would rather take my chance with the virus than spend the rest of my life locked down. Thats not a life , its a feckin existence.

Sad watching old folk in their last years spend the final months of their lives in misery dubbed up .

[Sampanviking]

Defeating a Pandemic is not an Ideological debate. There are measures that work and those that don't. Those that do are worth doing, does that don't, are a waste of time and money.

We have seen what it needs
a) A Government prepared to install and enforce strong enough measures to stop the spread of infection.
b) A population mature enough to understand that abiding to the spirit of the rules is a necessity.

Some counties; mainly in the east, have done this and are now living almost normal lives again
Others, mainly in the West, have failed and are still in a mess.

[Streetwalker]

Gosh, where to begin?  Do you not realise how much debt the rules are creating?  And the testing and vaccines?  YOU and all of us will pay for that in the end.  As Peter Hitchens points out, we are living in a police state.  We are denied human rights as set out in the European Convention On Human Rights (freedom of movement, freedom of assembly, right to protest), we are not allowed to socialise (ironically, anti-social behaviour is illegal, and now social behaviour is illegal), and we will soon be coerced into getting regular vaccines.  This is the new normal, and if it is accepted, it will only get worse.  I believe freedom is a bit like democracy, and it was Tony Benn who said: if you don't keep fighting for democracy, you lose it.  If they can claim there's a deadly pandemic and use it to justify all of this, then they can do it again, and again, and again, and if you allow it, they will do it.

The bottom line here is do you accept the world has been hit by a pandemic or not and do you believe that the vaccines are the way out ?   Im a yes on both ,I guess your a No .
Look I dont like it any more than you do ,the cost in financial terms that will take a generation to put right ,the cancellation of cancer and other life saving treatments  has been a terrible downside to saving covid patients .
Democracy is of course important but I fail to see why you feel its threatened  . The vaccines are being rolled out ,the light is at the end of the tunnel and we just need to hang on in there for maybe a few more months and we can all put this behind us and get back to some sort of normality .

Most countries locked down in one way or another ,ours was weak and vague , Sweden decided not to . They have had better results than some and worse than others . The demography of different  countries obviously plays a part as does the mindset of the population in either keeping safe or ignoring the advice .

To be honest   seeing government restrictions  during  a pandemic as some sort of power grab by the global elites and the end of our democratic rights is the reasoning of conspiracy theorists .

Be careful out there .

[Scott777]

Could have yes , would have we will never know .

I'm not so sure.  Sweden didn't lock down, and despite the MSM propaganda, if you look at actual life-years lost in Sweden, their plan was a success.

[Scott777]

I can only say what I see Scotty .  As long as people are able to get out and earn a living (and those who can't are supported by the government ) whats the harm in adhering to the rules of the pandemic ?

Gosh, where to begin?  Do you not realise how much debt the rules are creating?  And the testing and vaccines?  YOU and all of us will pay for that in the end.  As Peter Hitchens points out, we are living in a police state.  We are denied human rights as set out in the European Convention On Human Rights (freedom of movement, freedom of assembly, right to protest), we are not allowed to socialise (ironically, anti-social behaviour is illegal, and now social behaviour is illegal), and we will soon be coerced into getting regular vaccines.  This is the new normal, and if it is accepted, it will only get worse.  I believe freedom is a bit like democracy, and it was Tony Benn who said: if you don't keep fighting for democracy, you lose it.  If they can claim there's a deadly pandemic and use it to justify all of this, then they can do it again, and again, and again, and if you allow it, they will do it.

[Streetwalker]

RT reported the other day exactly the opposite.  People have had enough and are breaking the rules.

I can only say what I see Scotty .  As long as people are able to get out and earn a living (and those who cant are supported by the government ) whats the harm in adhering to the rules of the pandemic ?

[Streetwalker]

I doubt that.  You assume it was a pandemic that caused loss of life, and not lockdown.  An earlier lockdown could have caused more death.

Could have yes , would have we will never know . 

[patman post]

It's not just London they are thinking about. The justifications are all around us if you are prepared to see them.

And as so often, London is doing and giving more than its fair share to support the rest — Covid vaccines are being diverted around the country.
Vaccine supplies to London were shown to be restricted when the NHS chief in charge of the Covid response in the capital revealed it was receiving fewer doses of the Pfizer and Oxford per head than elsewhere...

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-vaccine-more-supplies-tougher-lockdown-sadiq-khan-b864148.html

[Scott777]

Like Boris Johnson, Neil Ferguson and Chris Whitty, their incomes and homes are secure.

And strangely prone to enlargment.

[Scott777]

It looks like the Threat of extra measures is enough not to bring them in .. Ive certainly noticed a more compliant public when out and about today

RT reported the other day exactly the opposite.  People have had enough and are breaking the rules.

[Scott777]

It's not just London they are thinking about. The justifications are all around us if you are prepared to see them.

I see facts about reduced hospital capacity, average death rates, and false positive tests.  I can't see anything else, because no one has shown it.

[Scott777]

I've been monitoring the government tests and about a week ago 1 in 8 tests, 12.5% were positive.
Today it is about 1 in 11 tests positive, 9.2%.

Also hospital admissions are declining in London and the South East, so where is the justification for extra measures?

The irony is, just like last time, the lockdown comes before the justification, and will cause the problem.

[Scott777]

They should have done that last March .  We would be talking about it today over a pint if they had

I doubt that.  You assume it was a pandemic that caused loss of life, and not lockdown.  An earlier lockdown could have caused more death.

[DeppityDawg]

Also hospital admissions are declining in London and the South East, so where is the justification for extra measures?

Justification for the continuing panic and fear? It can't have escaped your notice that those on here demanding ever stricter lockdowns are those with little or nothing to lose from it. Being either "retired" in Cornwall, or those who have in the past boasted of their successful career in telecoms and are now "working from home" on full pay is costing these people feck all. Its the easiest thing in the world to blame everyone else and demand everyone do what they do when they aren't likely to lose anything

As several of us said right from the start of this whole sh*t show, its the poorest who are and will pay dearly for this lunacy. They are the ones losing their homes, jobs and livelihoods while snooty ****s on here do nothing but sneer and point the finger. Like Boris Johnson, Neil Ferguson and Chris Whitty, their incomes and homes are secure. Many have already lost that security and comfort, and many more will before all this is over. Sick of reading the same tiresome sh*t from the same tiresome posters

[Streetwalker]

I've been monitoring the government tests and about a week ago 1 in 8 tests, 12.5% were positive.
Today it is about 1 in 11 tests positive, 9.2%.

Also hospital admissions are declining in London and the South East, so where is the justification for extra measures?

It looks like the Threat of extra measures is enough not to bring them in .. Ive certainly noticed a more compliant public when out and about today